Do you think Humans will colonise The Moon and Mars someday? - Page 3

**cginok** · January 3rd, 2018, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

It would best for the good of the Galaxy if We didn't do that..

That's probably the least likely thing to happen..

You're likely correct in both areas.

But, it's the only way for our species to survive our sun's ultimate demise.

**cginok** · January 3rd, 2018, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurEmale

@Brecht: What difference would it make to colonize the Moon and Mars, if you live under ever-increasing taxes to fund education and space exploration, where the government(s) involved are your ultimate landlord, and you are imprisoned if you don't pay income or property taxes? Living on the Moon or Mars after it was terraformed, would be purposeless if they enjoy less freedom that we do today, which is itself shrinking.

To misquote L. Neil Smith: "How'd you like to live in a public space colony, where Nixon or LBJ could turn off the air?"

Colonizing the Moon and Mars isn't about a tax avoidance scam. If you wish for that maybe you should become one of those "sovereign citizens."

**Welderman** · January 3rd, 2018, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melchior

And do you think humans will ever actually walk on Mars ?

NAH..

**CARLTON BROWN** · January 3rd, 2018, 11:54 PM

I'd just like to make a couple of points about this thread. Going to the Moon to simply plant a flag was perfectly feasible almost 50 years ago. The principles are well understood and can be improved on, but it's more to do with engineering than new science.

That said, it was potentially quite dangerous in some respects and Nixon had a speech prepared, just in case things went wrong on the Apollo 11 flight. It was certainly lucky that there were no major solar flares during the Apollo missions as the craft carried no shielding and this is an issue as you get further from the Earth's protection.

Setting up a small base on the Moon is already just about do-able. Both US and Russian plans were being drawn up in the 60s. Many US presidents have promised to do this. Obama had plans which were cancelled and Trump has said it should be NASA's next goal. Although there has been steady development of hardware and there is the possibility of a US manned test flight around the Moon fairly soon, a landing is farther away and big science takes a load of money, let alone flying up cargo and components to the Moon's surface for a modest base that will need to be at least partly submerged below the surface.

A larger base, not even the kind of impressive thing envisaged by Stanley Kubrick in the film 2001 around 50 years ago. will require the ability to extract water and useful elements for rocket fuel from the ground, or from polar ice, assuming the surveys are correct and it exists in shielded craters. The Moon has good resources of metals like titanium and aluminium to things like thorium and uranium that can be used in reactors. There is also helium 3, which is probably going to be used in fusion power generation some time ahead.

A mission to Mars is on a far bigger scale and a serious deal. Just putting humans on the surface to plant flags, pick up samples and shoot loads of historic pictures and video will cost trillions. Probably the sort of amount you'd spend on a reasonable sized war somewhere or the amount of money Americans spend on cosmetics or guns in a year!

For the transit, you need nuclear thermal/nuclear ion (or better) propulsion and the trip will last months. Life support will be required for a period lasting maybe a couple of years, which means a ship much bigger than the ISS. Ideally, you will have the means to protect the crew from long term exposure to cosmic radiation and solar storms. Gravity is another issue and the first mission will be long endurance and the crew will need to be very carefully chosen to make sure they are mentally stable enough for such a journey. In the event of an emergency or something bad happening to someone onboard, the crew will be on their own. The increasing radio link distance will make it impossible to get immediate advice from Earth and their onboard computer system, which will hopefully be quite advanced AI, must be ultra reliable and able to help. Hopefully, they can deal with a small meteorite puncturing the hull or substantial surgery on a crew member, perhaps performed partly by a robot.

Both China and Russia have the technical expertise to match the US in setting up a near-term moonbase and may view things differently from the West, either looking at the commercial or military advantages of being able to do this.

But all this is a far-call from setting up a small colony on Mars. Something might be possible within the next 50 years, but the cost will have to justify the unproven hardware. Someone mentioned terraforming and this is simply not going to happen in the foreseeable future. If it becomes possible, it may take a thousand years to achieve and is very much in the realm of sci-fi. Beyond Mars and its two moons, the next target will be Ceres or possibly Mercury towards the end of the century. But only brief expeditions to these bodies, not bases, unless there is some big breakthrough in engine technology, or someone is willing build the Orion drive and/or hibernation become viable for long flights.

As for interstellar missions, the requirements for a trip to the nearest star system are generally centuries beyond our present scientific capabilities, but I actually think that some of the current proposals for laser boosted micro probes are interesting, if nothing else.

And as I said before, all this stuff very much depend on whether or not we continue to ruin this planet as the flipside of humanity is often total stupidity and we probably can't be trusted with the means to wipe out all forms of life here, which we now have.

Estreeter · January 4th, 2018, 12:13 AM

I'll bet nobody considered this fact,

Wearing a space suit, that would make it almost impossible to do anal

I'd pour funds into solving that first

Sorry

Archim · January 4th, 2018, 12:56 AM

The Moon, OK, but heaven forbid Mars. We have already totally messed up one world. Mars is currently pristine. It should never be colonised - it's too important. It should retain its current international status and be treated in the same way as Antarctica, but more so - only international scientific expeditions are allowed there, and they must exercise the utmost care not to disrupt or contaminate it.
If any of these mindless selfish idiots who want to jump on a bandwagon and go and colonise it without thought or care for the future ever get into a spacecraft and set off, we must hope that Trump's finger on the big red button (or similar) vapourises them before they have gone much further than out of Earth orbit.

**bowlinggreen** · January 4th, 2018, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estreeter

I'll bet nobody considered this fact,

Wearing a space suit, that would make it almost impossible to do anal

I'd pour funds into solving that first

Sorry

You don't screw in the spacesuits, you screw naked in the sleep hab. In zero-gee. That would probably be an interesting experience.

Quackerson · January 4th, 2018, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimOl55

With the advent of AI and the new BFR, it seems logical that we will send AI ahead of us to explore for danger and send back analysis samples, while we set up stations along the route to expand our exposure to space and set up colonies to breed and repair our technology. Step by step. And yes, I do believe that this will happen, bit by bit.

See the Falcon Heavy here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZi9DJQuaYk&t=35s

& here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh_hza3ybts

& here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEokBZkZWxo&t=145s

BFR here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_3GPpIssV8&t=3s

I'd tend to agree that AI robots would pave the way, in terms of constructing a Moon base, in advance of humans living there.

Mars? I guess. Not in my lifetime.

Even with the Moon, though, what would humans do in terms of an oxygen supply? Keep bringing up compressed oxygen from the Earth? And for what purpose.

I think even sooner than any types of bases on the Moon or Mars, you'll probably see some type of Elysium colony, but rather right here on Earth than up in space. A massive amount of land walled off, with predator drones patrolling the perimeter to keep undesirables out, a servant class consisting entirely of robots, and hermetic domes sealing off buildings to keep the atmosphere out.

Estreeter · January 4th, 2018, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

You don't screw in the spacesuits, you screw naked in the sleep hab. In zero-gee.

But

I was comparing it to being on Earth, you know like when in the kitchen or bathroom and that one thing leads to another moment, zips undone and belt loosened, rear of skirt lifted, and not much else, then bent over vanity or bench, that quickie

Can't do that next to a boulder on another heavenly body

*** Disclaimer***
Above description not from 1st hand experience, that would be reaching for the stars

**Roubignol** · January 4th, 2018, 10:34 AM

I don't think. Let humanity reachs 2200.

And if we will colonise them, what will our grandchildren do there?
Mars is shit and the moon is ever worse.

The best planet on this solar system is our blue Earth. All the others are not funny to live on.
I'd prefer to disappear than to live in a container on Mars or on the Moon all my life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

You don't screw in the spacesuits, you screw naked in the sleep hab. In zero-gee. That would probably be an interesting experience.

On one Swiss radio a funny animator asked the former NASA astronaut "Daniel Nicollier" if he had sex in the space shuttle. The astronaut didn't find this question really funny and answer very serious... "No it was not the goal of the travels."

January 4th, 2018, 12:13 AM	#25
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January 3rd, 2018, 11:54 PM	#24
CARLTON BROWN Grand Vizier Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ruraltania Posts: 3,213 Thanks: 35,616 Thanked 35,565 Times in 3,205 Posts	I'd just like to make a couple of points about this thread. Going to the Moon to simply plant a flag was perfectly feasible almost 50 years ago. The principles are well understood and can be improved on, but it's more to do with engineering than new science. That said, it was potentially quite dangerous in some respects and Nixon had a speech prepared, just in case things went wrong on the Apollo 11 flight. It was certainly lucky that there were no major solar flares during the Apollo missions as the craft carried no shielding and this is an issue as you get further from the Earth's protection. Setting up a small base on the Moon is already just about do-able. Both US and Russian plans were being drawn up in the 60s. Many US presidents have promised to do this. Obama had plans which were cancelled and Trump has said it should be NASA's next goal. Although there has been steady development of hardware and there is the possibility of a US manned test flight around the Moon fairly soon, a landing is farther away and big science takes a load of money, let alone flying up cargo and components to the Moon's surface for a modest base that will need to be at least partly submerged below the surface. A larger base, not even the kind of impressive thing envisaged by Stanley Kubrick in the film 2001 around 50 years ago. will require the ability to extract water and useful elements for rocket fuel from the ground, or from polar ice, assuming the surveys are correct and it exists in shielded craters. The Moon has good resources of metals like titanium and aluminium to things like thorium and uranium that can be used in reactors. There is also helium 3, which is probably going to be used in fusion power generation some time ahead. A mission to Mars is on a far bigger scale and a serious deal. Just putting humans on the surface to plant flags, pick up samples and shoot loads of historic pictures and video will cost trillions. Probably the sort of amount you'd spend on a reasonable sized war somewhere or the amount of money Americans spend on cosmetics or guns in a year! For the transit, you need nuclear thermal/nuclear ion (or better) propulsion and the trip will last months. Life support will be required for a period lasting maybe a couple of years, which means a ship much bigger than the ISS. Ideally, you will have the means to protect the crew from long term exposure to cosmic radiation and solar storms. Gravity is another issue and the first mission will be long endurance and the crew will need to be very carefully chosen to make sure they are mentally stable enough for such a journey. In the event of an emergency or something bad happening to someone onboard, the crew will be on their own. The increasing radio link distance will make it impossible to get immediate advice from Earth and their onboard computer system, which will hopefully be quite advanced AI, must be ultra reliable and able to help. Hopefully, they can deal with a small meteorite puncturing the hull or substantial surgery on a crew member, perhaps performed partly by a robot. Both China and Russia have the technical expertise to match the US in setting up a near-term moonbase and may view things differently from the West, either looking at the commercial or military advantages of being able to do this. But all this is a far-call from setting up a small colony on Mars. Something might be possible within the next 50 years, but the cost will have to justify the unproven hardware. Someone mentioned terraforming and this is simply not going to happen in the foreseeable future. If it becomes possible, it may take a thousand years to achieve and is very much in the realm of sci-fi. Beyond Mars and its two moons, the next target will be Ceres or possibly Mercury towards the end of the century. But only brief expeditions to these bodies, not bases, unless there is some big breakthrough in engine technology, or someone is willing build the Orion drive and/or hibernation become viable for long flights. As for interstellar missions, the requirements for a trip to the nearest star system are generally centuries beyond our present scientific capabilities, but I actually think that some of the current proposals for laser boosted micro probes are interesting, if nothing else. And as I said before, all this stuff very much depend on whether or not we continue to ruin this planet as the flipside of humanity is often total stupidity and we probably can't be trusted with the means to wipe out all forms of life here, which we now have.

January 4th, 2018, 12:56 AM	#26
Archim Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 3 Thanks: 35 Thanked 20 Times in 3 Posts	The Moon, OK, but heaven forbid Mars. We have already totally messed up one world. Mars is currently pristine. It should never be colonised - it's too important. It should retain its current international status and be treated in the same way as Antarctica, but more so - only international scientific expeditions are allowed there, and they must exercise the utmost care not to disrupt or contaminate it. If any of these mindless selfish idiots who want to jump on a bandwagon and go and colonise it without thought or care for the future ever get into a spacecraft and set off, we must hope that Trump's finger on the big red button (or similar) vapourises them before they have gone much further than out of Earth orbit.