Newtown - Is it Really Time for a Change?

[9876543210]

I guess by now everyone is aware of what happened in Newtown, Connecticut last Friday. As of this writing we still don't know a lot of the details but they will slowly start to trickle in. What we do know is that another young man (20 years of age) blasted his way into a grade school in Newtown and proceeded to murder 20 first graders (ages about 6 or 7) and at least 6 female adults who were either teachers or school administrators. I also heard this morning that there are possibly two more adults in hospital but this hasn't been confirmed.

Over the years there have been so many of these incidents in the US that its made me wonder if this is just the way it it here? Do we really need to put up with this? Can we really not do any better? If the answer to those questions is no then this country is really in trouble.

When a society cannot protect its youngest and most vulnerable, our future, then that society deserves what it gets.

Maybe its just me, but I've taken this one really hard. And I'm sensing that others have as well. Will these children and teachers die for nothing? Or can something good come out of it?

This has always been described as a complex problem here in the US. But I no longer believe all aspects of it are. First, all assault weapons must be banned, collected and melted down. No exceptions. No ifs, ands or buts. This isn't easy here in the US with its gun culture but it must happen.

Now, please don't misunderstand. I'm a gun owner and hunter (deer mostly nowadays but I used to hunt pheasants and quail but they're now mostly gone so I won't hunt them anymore) and believe that people should be allowed to own some types of weapons. But assault weapons? Nope, not any more. These weapons can no longer be allowed to be owned by the public.

I brought this up in the other thread but it needs to be brought up here. According to a CNN initial estimate it only took the shooter about two minutes to:

1. Shoot out the elementary school doors.
2. Shoot and kill at least 26 children and women. Possibly several others.
3. When he heard the police were close, commit suicide.

Two minutes! Let me say that again: two minutes to kill 26 people!

So we may be at a turning point in the US. A point where people have had enough. A point where people are willing to stand up to the NRA and tell them to either get out of the way or pay the consequences. Will they do that? btw, its now being reported that the NRA Facebook page and Twitter accounts have been turned off. The cowards! Maybe someone could check that and see if its true.

Lastly, I would ask that people be careful of what they say. If there is a change there are going to be a whole lot of people that aren't going to like this. And are willing to die for their beliefs. So please be careful. This is tough enough as is.

[knobby109]

I live in a country where we don't have guns. In fact most people haven't even seen one unless they served in the military.It's difficult to understand why so many of our American friends feel so passionate about having them.They really don't belong in a well ordered society.

[9876543210]

Continuing on from the other thread.

Greenman,

Originally Posted by Greenman

I am always careful with my statements but let's be honest some don't need an excuse to own a gun-because it is the Constitution it is their right to bear arms - it still beggars belief that so many of them were owned.

Please let me reiterate that I'm a gun owner and hunter. I have no problem with owning a rifle or two, shotguns and a few handguns (none with clips containing more than 10 rounds.) And I know a few people who are collectors of antiques and own several hundred of them. Most of them you wouldn't want to fire as they could blow up in your face. So, at least to me, volume isn't necessarily the problem. Its the type of weapon thats important. Assault weapons, at least as far as I'm concerned, are the problem.

Even a hunter wouldn't use an assault rifle-more likely a shotgun or other rifle-you don't need to pump hundreds of bullets into an animal to kill it-one or two will do.

Agreed 100%. No argument.

It is something that may emerge sooner or later but there is still no excuse to leave them around for her teenage son to find.

I've heard nothing about that as of yet so we'll have to wait. Speculation won't help us much here.

I am just glad it is very rare in this country and on the whole British schoolchildren are safe. The only thing we had to worry about when I was at primary school was lunatics from the National Front, trying to recruit innocent kids to their depraved ideas that and 'Stranger Danger'.

Maybe something you guys from other countries could help us with is to help us understand why you have the gun control laws that you do. Were there specific incidents that happened which changed peoples attitudes? Do you have a dictator that just doesn't allow them? I don't know. Whatever the reason would be good to hear.

[Mal Hombre]

In 1987, A 27 yr old loner called Michael Ryan killed sixteen people with a Kalashnikov assault rifle in the town of Hungerford in Berkshire,Finally cornered in a local school He shot himself.The case resulted in the passing of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988,The act prohibited the ownership of many classes of firearms including Assault rifles.

The Dunblane school massacre occurred at Dunblane Primary School in the Scottish town of Dunblane on 13 March 1996. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton (b. 10 May 1952), entered the school armed with four Handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide. The case led to the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997,Which made handguns illegal in the UK.
The parallels are clear,Whether or not anything similar can be achieved in the US remains to be
seen.

[MrInBetween]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

its now being reported that the NRA Facebook page and Twitter accounts have been turned off. The cowards! Maybe someone could check that and see if its true.

National Rifle Association gun lobby shuts down Facebook and Twitter activity

The organisation’s official Facebook page is no longer accessible after it was deactivated by Saturday. Last week the NRA celebrated having gathered 1.7 million “Likes” for the page.
...


The NRA has also gone silent on Twitter. Its official account, ... which has more than 60,000 followers, remains accessible but has not been updated since before news of the killings broke. It is normally updated a few times every day.

I can confirm this is the case. It's as if the Facebook page simply doesn't exist. The Twitter account is still there, but they haven't Tweeted since the 14th.

[9876543210]

knobby109,

Originally Posted by knobby109

I live in a country where we don't have guns. In fact most people haven't even seen one unless they served in the military.It's difficult to understand why so many of our American friends feel so passionate about having them.They really don't belong in a well ordered society.

If you don't mind me asking. What country are you in? Why don't people there have guns? Or would it be more accurate to say that you can own a rifle, shotgun or handgun but not an assault rifle? Have people there never owned guns or was there an incident which changed peoples minds?

[tygrkhat40]

There are several problems to bring about change in America's gun culture. First, is the ingrained belief that since the Bill of Rights allows for the ownership of guns, everything goes; no matter the power of the firearm or purpose. And since the SCOTUS has pretty much determined that this is what the Founding Fathers intended, this is the government-supported position.

And then there's the reason why some Americans own guns: they fear their own government. Whether it's they're coming to take your guns away, they're going to force your kids to be vaccinated, the "socialist" President will turn American sovereignty to the UN or whatever their paranoia tells them. (Obama a socialist. Most of these morons wouldn't know a socialist if they came up and kicked them in the nuts.) Too many of these people equate "gun control" with "gun confiscation."

The NRA die-hards won't even consider anything other than the status quo. In fact, one representative from Texas gave the inevitable response to this tragedy, if one of the teachers has a rifle in a closet, she could have ended it. Until we can change minds like this, nothing will change.

[9876543210]

Mal Hombre,

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

In 1987, A 27 yr old loner called Michael Ryan killed sixteen people with a Kalashnikov assault rifle in the town of Hungerford in Berkshire,Finally cornered in a local school He shot himself.The case resulted in the passing of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988,The act prohibited the ownership of many classes of firearms including Assault rifles.

The Dunblane school massacre occurred at Dunblane Primary School in the Scottish town of Dunblane on 13 March 1996. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton (b. 10 May 1952), entered the school armed with four Handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide. The case led to the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997,Which made handguns illegal in the UK.
The parallels are clear,Whether or not anything similar can be achieved in the US remains to be
seen.

Holy crap! The parallels can't be more clear. And I don't think I've ever heard of it. Just a couple of questions.

1. Are all firearms now banned in Britain? Does that include Scotland, Ireland and Wales?
2. Has it made a difference?
3. Were people forced to turn in their weapons? How did that go over?

[Greenman]

I think one reason we have such stringent laws is because it is not tied down to a Constitution, it is a criminal offence to carry a weapon of any sort including a knife in a public place. Licences must be carried by gun owners and they must prove the reason why they want one-if you are a farmer, game-keeper or someone that needs to control things then that is acceptable; if you are a sports shooter, like a clay-pigeon shooter or a competition shooter then that is part of the sport and of course you need to be legislated too but most organisations will issue licences etc. All guns owned MUST be placed in a locked cupboard or display cabinet or the like and secured safely away from children.

The biggest incidents here were a shooter on a rampage in Hungerford, who shot people in a McDonalds and in Scotland, Dunblane, a small village community devastated by a lone gunman who ran amok and also killed children(the same place where tennis player Andy Murray comes from) Those incidents strengthened the laws and Britain has the toughest laws in the world. Even secret service agents are not allowed to carry weapons unless direct authorisation is granted by the Home Secretary. The biggest difference between the US and Britain is that our police are not armed all the time, taking away the taser guns(only brought in a few years ago) we have had truncheons and sprays for years. Only the Flying Squad and SO 19 were armed and before that the SPG.

When I was young and at school, it was the one question I always asked coppers that visited-would you ever carry guns? Their answer was always "No!" The most violent criminal might use a gun but the worst incidents now seem to be with knives as they are easier to get hold of, even kitchen knives etc. We don't have a dictator, we have common sense and people in this country don't see the need for arms - plus we don't have an organisation like the National Rifle Association that is so powerful that even Presidents cower. Guns just don't play a part of everyday life for us - for some yes, but for the vast majority-no.

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

Mal Hombre,



Holy crap! The parallels can't be more clear. And I don't think I've ever heard of it. Just a couple of questions.

1. Are all firearms now banned in Britain? Does that include Scotland, Ireland and Wales?
2. Has it made a difference?
3. Were people forced to turn in their weapons? How did that go over?

The various Firearms Acts cover England,Scotland and Wales,Northern Ireland Has it's own rules.It has made a difference since Handguns are effectively forbidden,I believe there was some resistance at first but the deaths at Dunblane were a pretty unanswerable argument.