Wealth Tax?

[cginok]

Originally Posted by banquomerc

some of the comments above from the States are silly-we need to appropriately tax wealth in America again while at the same instance, use it to create new jobs for the poor AND those who use the system. If able, all need to work until at least 55 or 60 and contribute. Example of two wrongs don't make a right: the Bush Tax '02 giveaway to the rich (much like the Trump one now)is still not paid for and the economy collapsed in '08. Some writers are correct that people abuse the system on the low end, well, so can the rich by hiding it. Last comment...in 2012 Mitt Romney (silvery spoon like W and Trump)said in a debate, he does not want to give one extra dollar to the Fed Gov't in taxes-well, 'ol Mitt didn't have to serve in Vietnam and neither did W and Trump, but our boys who died there and at Omaha Beach b4 that gave more than $1-they gave all. The Republican right believes in greed and propaganda more than that flag or Bible they hide behind.

The economic collapse of 08 was not caused by the tax cuts of 02. To claim that shows some serious ignorance.



Silvery spoon like Hillary and Pelosi? Or the Kennedys? Or Feinstein? Pelosi has a salary of about $300K a year, and a net worth pushing $200 million...that's some darn good money management on her part. Bill and Hillary were broke when they left the White House, and now have a net worth of $240 million. Ole Bill must've been making some serious coin on those speeches he was giving. Feinstein's husband was chosen to manage the sale of surplus govt real estate which stands to profit them close to $1 billion. But oh no, those Democrats are all on the up and up, unlike the Republicans.

[banquomerc]

and democratic wealth should be taxed...it was greed and the mortgage rip-off from the banks-still, how did the W tax cuts not grow the economy long term if they were so awesome! Pelosi's hubby is wealthy btw...I don't mind fair wealth, it's greed you seem to support, not me.

[bigtrain45]

Giving tax cuts to any group, especially the ones that have all the money, when you're waging two wars costing over $1 billion a month each, is irresponsible at best, treasonous at worst. Our troops were sent into Iraq and Afghanistan with a lot of inferior equipment, especially Humvees with poor armor plating, resulting in countless, pointless deaths and maimings, but hey, soldiers are a fungible asset, expendable and all, because we wouldn't want the Koch Brothers or the Waltons to have to give up any of their vast fortunes to save the lives of our men and women in uniform, would we?

[Roubignol]

Switzerland and France have wealth taxes.

[judy84]

There have been "grabs" on savings in the past in Europe


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...tyle-raid.html


Pretty sure Netherlands taxes savings (I don't understand these things much) ; my son was worried at one stage.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income...he_Netherlands

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by cginok

The economic collapse of 08 was not caused by the tax cuts of 02. To claim that shows some serious ignorance.

You are right that the economic disaster of 2008 to 2009 didn't stem from the 2002 Bush administration tax cuts. But the 2002 tax cuts mark the true beginning of America's burgeoning deficit problem. I well remember Richard Cheney (that worthless gobshite) stating "Deficits don't matter". But if you max out the credit card during the good times you make it much harder to reflate the economy when a generational crisis like the banking sector collapse comes home to roost, as happened in 2008-9. So you see, deficits do matter.

And now we see once again the Republican president spunking the kids' college fund on a fun weekend in Vegas...tax cuts for anybody who already has enough money to choke ten horses.

[profvolup]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

Lately the Republican Party operates a policy of determining who has too much money and taking donations from them in return for doing their bidding.

I would argue that's both parties ... actually all parties (even the Libertarians and the Greens too). But both the left and right are big time in the pockets of the lobbyists.

I don't think people realize even the alleged 'green economy' is a load of special interest BS. Although if you're an engineer, especially a business owner, it's a great time to take advantage of the taxpayers money. I just refuse to be part of that waste. I honestly wish we Americans would 'wake up' to what's going on with 'special interest' on all sides.

But most people don't have the background to understand how they are being taken advantage of. I mean, even 'pro-environmentalist' and 'pro-socialism' aren't actually such, and written completely different than their titles. In the end, I just want American consumers to understand the actual 'costs' and 'help pay,' instead of saying, 'let someone else pay.'

That all said ...

There is not enough income taxes out there to support the US' sheer level of spending. Gutting the military and going back to a 90%+ total taxation rate on the high income earners (not the same as 'wealthy' -- 'wealth' is what people have already paid income or capital gains taxes on) would not cover but $0.25-0.5T/year, only a quarter or half of the deficit / interest on the debt. And even the non-popularist, realist Democratic candidates like Amy Klobuchar know that increasing corporate taxes to the levels pre-2017, when the US had the highest corporate tax rate in the world (even higher than the Japanese) is self-defeating.

And if we're going to seize assets (wealth taxes), we might as well 'throw in the towel' and become Greece, because the wealthy will pull out quickly. I don't think Americans realize that, unlike income taxes which are 'replenished' every year, most people with $3-8M/wealth are small business owners who don't make but $250K/year, sometimes as little as $50K/year 'take home,' because their income is so wrapped up in their investments, employees, etc... I've been there, it's not fun sometimes, and even my wife doesn't understand how we -- in an outstanding year -- make $300K, get taxed on $150K, and bring home less than $50K, in order to 'invest' in people, for the future, etc...

So even just a 2% wealth tax on $3-8M is $60-160K/year, and 4% would be $120-320K/year. That's usually more than small business owners bring home, and they will go net-negative as a result. I cannot emphasize this enough, it's not sustainable. Within a decade, people will see the wholesale change of the US from a sizable, innovative, small business country to a big business-only dominated industry. We need innovative, small businesses. Wealth taxes are going to hurt 1st generation millionaires, the last thing we want. Especially since the bar to retire today with a 'middle class' lifestyle is already $2M, and within a generation, it will be $4-5M.

Yes, just ask millionaire Boomers who tried to retire, and could not. They had to re-enter the workforce after their typical $700K-1.1M was cut in half in the 2008 Great Recession. Things like that can happen anytime. Gen-X will be $2-3M, Millenials will need $3-6M, to retire. I'm not a millionaire either, and coming up on 45, I'm well behind my requirements to get the $2.5M needed to retire 'middle class' wise. Ask any financial advisor, they'll tell you what's really required, and how most people have no idea what's really required. I'm not 1% either, I'm the 2% -- the small business owner that works 70 hours/week, and employs 1-2 other people. We're the people who employ 35%+ of America.

So regarding corporate taxes (which don't affect me, I'm IRS Schedule C self-employed) ...

Western European countries only get 6% of their taxes from corporations, and most consumers pay for their 'impact' as well as real 'health care costs,' that's why they have sound environmental policies and well-funded medical systems (several are more free market than the US) because consumers 'have to care/pay.' Here in the US, we stupidly keep stupidly blaming government/corporations, when it's the lobbyists that are actually 'playing games' that we don't see, and we get laws entitled one way, but worded another.

I honestly wish more than 1-2% of Americans had experience running a small business for a decade. They would learn a lot. I'm just glad I've been successful for the last 15 years, although some years I had $30K/year in losses, and my wife 'backfilled' with her job. I withhold extra my first 3 quarters, so I don't 'owe' every year, but many people are the opposite. I mean, I'm getting nearly a $30K tax return this year, not really because I over withheld, but because my income 'dropped off' in the second half of last year, and I have a friend who owes $25K, and that's because he was in the same boat, but didn't withhold much as he needed just what he earned (before withholding taxes) to live. We need more pro-small business laws, not more laws that hurt small businesses (which people think target big businesses).

This country needs to stop spending so much. We need to cut spending now ... while the dollar is worth something, before we have to cut spending because the dollar is now worthless, because our debt total is unmanagable. W., Obama and now Trump, with both parties in Congress, have refused to address our sheer spending rate. Trying to find 'more income' is not going to work ... period. Even wealth taxes will only give a 3-5 year 'boost' before it totally undermines everything. Again, imagine Greece.

I'm not against Bernie Sanders, but people need to really listen to what he's actually saying, not what they wish he is saying. He's not dumb. What he wants to do is going to hurt, but it's feasible. But no, not everyone is getting free college, not everyone is getting a great PPO-like healthcare plan ... socialism is about what you 'give up' for others, the less fortunate, instead of 'getting' for yourself. It's going to be like a bad HMO plan, with no right to sue, but at least everyone will have it. And only 2-4 years of public college will be free, let alone he's not forgiving private college debt.

[beemerider500]

Well stated profvolup. I was self employed during the 70's and it can be a very difficult road. The thing that should trouble every American is the National Debt, which just ticked to over 23 trillion. This is a real threat to a prosperous future.

I always get a kick out of those that accuse people / persons that "you make to much", but (usually) when you ask the accusers how much they are making... silence.