Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

**Roubignol** · September 1st, 2017, 10:53 AM

Hi,

Here is a forum with a huge majority of Anglo-Saxons. So I suppose that you mainly hate communism. But why?

Exactly 15 minutes ago, I spoke with a 50 years old guy born in Yugoslavia.
He's a huge worker.
He knew the Communism and just told me that the Tito's years were the best years of his life.
There were no poor people, very few criminality, all the children had an education. They were not rich but they lived well.

He finally quit Kosovo during the war and came back when the war was finished. He finally decided to quit one more time his country.

He told me that everything has changed in the worst direction.
A lot of criminality, a lot more poor people and absolutely nomore solidarity.

Now I work with a Polish guy who is a little bit older.
He's incredibly lazy, he spends his money buying stupid things. He's an egoïst, but on several ways he's really funny and he has a very good level of knowledges. He knows how to integrate or derivate functions.
He HATES communism. He always tells me that were the worst years of his life. He always tells me the same story: "Why we only had one type of grey phone at home and not several ones to choose? Why we had to be restricted in the quantity of gazoline to put in our cars?"
But he never told me that he was hungry or there were hungry people in his city.
After the fall of the wall, my Polish coworker never went back to work in Poland.

When I read that 46 millions Americans people, 9 millions French people live under the line of poverty and when I spoke with my Polish hater or my Yugoslavian fan of Communism, both told me they never were poor and nobody were poor.

So in your point of view, who is right, who is wrong?
Does a good Communism really exist? Is it a model of society that correspond to a proper personal philosophy?
Is Communism that bad?

**cginok** · September 1st, 2017, 01:37 PM

Using someone from Yugoslavia as your benchmark for communism is, quite frankly, wrong. Yugoslavia, though a communist country, was not under the boot heel of the USSR. The people in Yugoslavia had more freedoms, more openness, more access to Western people and goods, than the people in most other communist countries. Your Polish friend being proof of that.

I've always thought that the problem with communism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, laziness. No matter how little I work, or how little effort I put out, I'll still be taken care of. No, I might not live a life of luxury, but at least I'll have some form of housing with adequate food and health care to survive.

I've always thought that the problem with capitalism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, greed. So what if I have 10 mansions, 3 private jets, and a fleet of Italian sports cars, I need another freakin' Ferrari damnit and I don't care if I have to destroy thousands of people's lives to get it!!!

**SanteeFats** · September 1st, 2017, 01:50 PM

Oh hell now you are going to get palo all riled up.

Like any form of government it is how well (

) it is run and how capable the members are.

**cicciobuki** · September 1st, 2017, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cginok

Using someone from Yugoslavia as your benchmark for communism is, quite frankly, wrong. Yugoslavia, though a communist country, was not under the boot heel of the USSR. The people in Yugoslavia had more freedoms, more openness, more access to Western people and goods, than the people in most other communist countries. Your Polish friend being proof of that.

I've always thought that the problem with communism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, laziness.(...)

I've always thought that the problem with capitalism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, greed.(...)

The Vietnamese must've noticed the same, hence they introduced the 'doi moi' (some 30 years ago) and injected some capitalism in their communism.

costello · September 1st, 2017, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cginok

Using someone from Yugoslavia as your benchmark for communism is, quite frankly, wrong. Yugoslavia, though a communist country, was not under the boot heel of the USSR. The people in Yugoslavia had more freedoms, more openness, more access to Western people and goods, than the people in most other communist countries. Your Polish friend being proof of that.

I've always thought that the problem with communism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, laziness. No matter how little I work, or how little effort I put out, I'll still be taken care of. No, I might not live a life of luxury, but at least I'll have some form of housing with adequate food and health care to survive.

I've always thought that the problem with capitalism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, greed. So what if I have 10 mansions, 3 private jets, and a fleet of Italian sports cars, I need another freakin' Ferrari damnit and I don't care if I have to destroy thousands of people's lives to get it!!!

As a venezuelan I totally agree with you in the second paragraph. The way I see it from my personal experience, communism has only worked for the lazy people who never cared to get a career or to improve their own ives by their own effort.

But I don't agree about your views about capitalism, that's the version of corporative capitalism from the US, but there's a healthy form of capitalism in which the free market improves the lives of the people while the rule of law will protect them from anyone who wants to crush them.

The scandinavian countries have mixed socialist policies with centre-right economics and they have achieved high standards of living.

rickc1970 · November 16th, 2018, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cginok

Using someone from Yugoslavia as your benchmark for communism is, quite frankly, wrong. Yugoslavia, though a communist country, was not under the boot heel of the USSR. The people in Yugoslavia had more freedoms, more openness, more access to Western people and goods, than the people in most other communist countries. Your Polish friend being proof of that.

I've always thought that the problem with communism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, laziness. No matter how little I work, or how little effort I put out, I'll still be taken care of. No, I might not live a life of luxury, but at least I'll have some form of housing with adequate food and health care to survive.

I've always thought that the problem with capitalism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, greed. So what if I have 10 mansions, 3 private jets, and a fleet of Italian sports cars, I need another freakin' Ferrari damnit and I don't care if I have to destroy thousands of people's lives to get it!!!

That is a good way to put it. Sometimes I wonder if there is a better system. It seems no matter what type of government you look at someone is getting rich off of the people working. I don't think there has ever been a true communist government. The USSR had elitists just like any other type of government. I guess with capitalism people could vote with their wallet but it may mean some serious sacrifices.

**palo5** · September 1st, 2017, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

It's a very complicated question. I'm a lifelong communist, and think communism contains some deathless ideals. But it depends who leads and how it's practiced -- there are many different flavors. All have up- and downsides

I had a good life in USSR and DDR. If I had worked in the same position in the West, I would have been better rewarded, materially at any rate. On the other hand, homelessness and poverty were almost unknown in the East, same with unemployment. They were unconstitutional, actually. Guarantees you would never see in the West

But as I said, it is a very complicated question

**otokonomidori** · February 16th, 2018, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

.... homelessness and poverty were almost unknown in the East, same with unemployment....

So how do you spot the losers when everybody gets a fair share of bugger-all?

**scoundrel** · February 16th, 2018, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

It's a very complicated question. I'm a lifelong communist, and think communism contains some deathless ideals. But it depends who leads and how it's practiced -- there are many different flavors. All have up- and downsides

I had a good life in USSR and DDR. If I had worked in the same position in the West, I would have been better rewarded, materially at any rate. On the other hand, homelessness and poverty were almost unknown in the East, same with unemployment. They were unconstitutional, actually. Guarantees you would never see in the West

But as I said, it is a very complicated question

Also, you can always get salt in a Communist centrally planned economy.

**brk549** · September 1st, 2017, 03:49 PM

If you end up with a bad leader as N. Korea,they are life long maybe even self appointed,you can't do anything about it.You have no control over who is controlling your life.Your only option is revolt.We had one here in the US a few months ago but we did it with votes.

September 1st, 2017, 10:53 AM	#1
Roubignol Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mice Planet Posts: 3,882 Thanks: 15,974 Thanked 29,726 Times in 3,826 Posts	Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism? Hi, Here is a forum with a huge majority of Anglo-Saxons. So I suppose that you mainly hate communism. But why? Exactly 15 minutes ago, I spoke with a 50 years old guy born in Yugoslavia. He's a huge worker. He knew the Communism and just told me that the Tito's years were the best years of his life. There were no poor people, very few criminality, all the children had an education. They were not rich but they lived well. He finally quit Kosovo during the war and came back when the war was finished. He finally decided to quit one more time his country. He told me that everything has changed in the worst direction. A lot of criminality, a lot more poor people and absolutely nomore solidarity. Now I work with a Polish guy who is a little bit older. He's incredibly lazy, he spends his money buying stupid things. He's an egoïst, but on several ways he's really funny and he has a very good level of knowledges. He knows how to integrate or derivate functions. He HATES communism. He always tells me that were the worst years of his life. He always tells me the same story: "Why we only had one type of grey phone at home and not several ones to choose? Why we had to be restricted in the quantity of gazoline to put in our cars?" But he never told me that he was hungry or there were hungry people in his city. After the fall of the wall, my Polish coworker never went back to work in Poland. When I read that 46 millions Americans people, 9 millions French people live under the line of poverty and when I spoke with my Polish hater or my Yugoslavian fan of Communism, both told me they never were poor and nobody were poor. So in your point of view, who is right, who is wrong? Does a good Communism really exist? Is it a model of society that correspond to a proper personal philosophy? Is Communism that bad?

September 1st, 2017, 01:50 PM	#3
SanteeFats Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 60,813 Thanks: 281,805 Thanked 813,742 Times in 60,857 Posts	Oh hell now you are going to get palo all riled up. Like any form of government it is how well () it is run and how capable the members are.

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September 1st, 2017, 01:37 PM	#2
cginok Vintage Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 603 Thanks: 61 Thanked 5,414 Times in 594 Posts	Using someone from Yugoslavia as your benchmark for communism is, quite frankly, wrong. Yugoslavia, though a communist country, was not under the boot heel of the USSR. The people in Yugoslavia had more freedoms, more openness, more access to Western people and goods, than the people in most other communist countries. Your Polish friend being proof of that. I've always thought that the problem with communism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, laziness. No matter how little I work, or how little effort I put out, I'll still be taken care of. No, I might not live a life of luxury, but at least I'll have some form of housing with adequate food and health care to survive. I've always thought that the problem with capitalism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, greed. So what if I have 10 mansions, 3 private jets, and a fleet of Italian sports cars, I need another freakin' Ferrari damnit and I don't care if I have to destroy thousands of people's lives to get it!!!

September 1st, 2017, 03:49 PM	#10
brk549 Vintage Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,122 Thanks: 20,220 Thanked 7,178 Times in 1,046 Posts	If you end up with a bad leader as N. Korea,they are life long maybe even self appointed,you can't do anything about it.You have no control over who is controlling your life.Your only option is revolt.We had one here in the US a few months ago but we did it with votes.