Militant Islamists

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by penfold007

We didn't see hordes of moderate Catholics on the streets when extremist Catholics were blowing up pubs (Birmingham, Guildford), shopping centres etc. that I recall. Nor do I recall anyone saying that they should be out doing so at the time.

Maybe because the people that were setting those bombs were not doing so as Catholics but in another cause. The stated aim of PIRA was a united SOCIALIST Ireland where socialist mean't Marxist.

[nevada1]

Originally Posted by pgpilot

If this is the case why is Saudi Arabia the way it is? They have plenty of money, a good standard of living by anyone's standards, but they are governed by, if not a country of, what we think of Muslim extremists.

Part of the problem, and I don't know what the solution is, is the attitude you show in your post. You seem to think the American way is the best way. You have massive social inequality, and you have your own religious fundamentalists in Christian groups. Also your society has a history of shooting people for no reason. Remember the shooting in the cinema because someone was throwing pop corn, not that different from being offended at a cartoon.

Yes very true my friend. As I said, We do have many problems and our own religious weird-os. We have a christian sect that protests at fallen military hero funerals. Saying that they were killers and that God was punishing them. And another sect that dances with live rattle snakes. We do have have our own fair share of sick minded people. We are not the best or perfect in any way. The Saudis do have a very good standard of living. But I do feel that if all the Muslim countries had the same standard of living, There would not be a jihad going on. But your point is well taken. The answer to a social problem in the modern world should not be at the end of a gun. That is why many of us are not religious. We are spiritual and refuse to buy into two thousend year old hate. But we are few. Many thanks for you input.

[rustler]

Originally Posted by nevada1

Why is it that I never hear of a collage educated person with a good job and house payments living the modern dream ever become an isis or fringe jihadest. Air conditioning, McDonalds and Burger King, Flush toilets and electricity will win the so called war.

Er, just for the record, Osama Bin Laden, was the son of a billionaire, and who himself was reported to have a fortune in excess of $30 million. He had also, IIRC. lived in the US for a while. He was also university educated.

It seems that the 'modern dream' ceertainly didn't 'do it' for him did it.

As for flush toilets etc. I have read that he had a distaste (no pun intended) for chilled water, and other modern conveniences.

[buggeration]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Bugger I don't want to get in a deep religious discussion on this thread. However God has also given man freewill which is where I think a lot of bad decisions come from. Plus just because God may have a doctrine does not mean man will not corrupt it. Imagine if God did all you asked above, wouldn't we then live in a very regimented society? A lot like the Sharia laws and the ISIS state wants to impose? Plus Satan has a place in a lot of the bad stuff in the world,IMO. You are correct evil is evil no matter what but ask the Muslim fanatics if they are evil. I bet their answer is no we all are. While misguided religious fanatics are to blame for a lot of the violence in the world there are still many horrible actions that can be laid at the feet of nonreligious groups. Africa-look at all the ethnic genocides, Russia-look at the same kind of ethnic violence in Chechnya and other regions around the world. Somalia the pirates are just crooks.
Finally God has nothing to answer for when humans take His teachings and corrupt them for their own ends.

That argument doesn't cut it with me. Isn't Heaven regimented, where we live under Your God's ruling? If life on earth cant be regimented, neither can a heavenly afterlife. That's bollocks. Sorry!

[buttsie]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

HeyO, just saw the ending of the French (?) Islamic terrorists. I am glad they are dead. They were scum and I hope they died slowly. They had gone out country to be trained, had criminal records to boot, and were on the French watch list. Yet because of democracy, which I definitely support, they were free to act as they did. IF they had been deported it would not have happened. Harsh yes but the good of the many at times may supersede the rights of the few. Especially when the few are proven criminals and religious zealots. Maybe it is time to ban people from returning to their home country if it can be shown they left for terrorist training and indoctrination???

Your drawing far too many conclusions from what has never occured

Given their fanatical state of mind they were going to harm somewhere
where makes no difference ie the continued embassy bombings

The idea you can send your problems away with no repercussions is laughable

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by rustler

Er, just for the record, Osama Bin Laden, was the son of a billionaire, and who himself was reported to have a fortune in excess of $30 million. He had also, IIRC. lived in the US for a while. He was also university educated.

It seems that the 'modern dream' ceertainly didn't 'do it' for him did it.

As for flush toilets etc. I have read that he had a distaste (no pun intended) for chilled water, and other modern conveniences.

While a good living standard is no absolute guarantee for sanity, Bin Laden would have had a lot less followers, ready to kill themselves off for him.

If these people have something to live for they wouldn't need something to die for.

Well, many of them at least.

[tafkab]

Originally Posted by winebeavis

Let me first say I have no problem with Muslims.

I do have a problem with people who committed the cowardly and heinous acts in Paris. It's the acts, not the religion, that disgusts me. I don't care why anybody did it, if they even believe their own rhetoric or not. That fact remains that some people committed a horrible crime and for that I hope justice is served.

Hear ! Hear ! Hear !
Thats exactly what I thought.
Here in Europe we have the second or third or even fourth Generation of Muslims from wherever they came. In my country ist Turkey.
So the were born here, theiy live here, they have our passports, they ARE German, French, British..... people.

The bad news is in some contries (in mine to) they are not integrated, either because we do not let them, or they did not want it, or both.
So we have Gehttos, Banlieus or similar things were young people have o future, no hope, no jobs, no education.
And there the radicval fishermans act.
The Islamist act in muslim quarters and the radical right Nazis act in the pour national inhabitaed quarters. And these radicals of all color bring young people to such acts. That has naithing to do with religion.

Beside I wish the mainsteram islam would ban these acts more often and more stringent here in Europe. They started but not all imans and not all groups did so.
The have to build a strong front of their own to show young "radical blinded"
guys that what they are doeing is wrong !


And to the strater of this thread: You akt like a fisherman.
Do you also expel the highschool boys that enter schools whith guns and kill eople.
As far as I know the boy from Columbine were americans. And the boys who did it here were Europeans. How do we handle them ?


BTW: The snafu situation in far east can be discussed till the sun gets red. There is no solution which suits everyone. Both parties have done wrong and will do so in future till infinity. This could only be handled by very strong occupation of the whole region. Or both parties have to agree to a ceise fire and than still radical groups on both sides will violate it for the sake of religion, god whatever. A lot os people do not want peace, for their own sake / agenda.

[brk549]

I don't think there are that many of them all that ready to die for their 14 or 21 virgin goats or what ever it is their supposed to receive.I think a lot of them are with childish minds and childish bravado.If there was a lot of them they could be doing what they did in France daily all around the world.Just imagine what one or two of them could do at a football game or any of the probably thousands of gatherings all over the world where ten thousand or more people have gathered and be more than willing to die doing it.We found out with Hussain their bark is a lot worse than their bite.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by buttsie

The idea you can send your problems away with no repercussions is laughable

So start laughing. Let them be dropped into ISIS territory and see how they fare there.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

So start laughing. Let them be dropped into ISIS territory and see how they fare there.

yes, provide the enemy with extra troops, good idea...