The Football Thread

[buttsie]

Originally Posted by pierrelm

Now another non-contraversial topic - Racism in domestic football, and more precisely, the 'debate' regarding the low number of black managers in top flight football

Am I being a tad cynical, but does it appear to be black players coming to the end of their careers that seem to shouting the loudest - Jason Roberts, Rio Ferdinand spring immediately to mind. Couple that with the bug eyed pronouncements of the intensely sanctimonious and irritating Garth Crooks and I struggle to find much evidence being presented that football is racist when it comes to coaching appointments - I suspect whatever your race gender, orientation etc, if you can produce a winning team, then "get in here and quickly" would be the reaction?

We are being told that there iis a 'glass ceiling' for non white managerial/coaching applicants. Is there any real evidence for this or is it that this suits people who appear to want to push their own profile forward as being representative spokespersons and maintain a high media profile and being invited to talk, appear as pundits and be consulted by media etc. In other words, is it really a lever for personal interest?

I've found myself wondering if black players make up approximately a quarter of our league pros, then exactly how many of the 25% or so black players that are involved week in week out as pro footballers want to pursue this as a career and take the coaching courses, to try to get into management? That would surely be a much more telling statistic or am I being too simplistic here?

How many jobs has the know-all Garth Crooks for instance applied for? Ian Wright has recently stated he wouldn't dream of becoming a manager as it's too much stress and too little security of tenure. There's certainly been a couple of generations of really good black players but seemingly very few of them have had a go at management - I'd like to hear more from them - some of them are in coaching, some of them never made it - along with many more ex-pros.

One of the biggest loads of twaddle was for an ex pro (this was either Roberts or the usually sensible Leroy Rosenior) to suggest that the top black players like Rio Ferdinand should be fast tracked into management. Such muddled thinking about hi-profile ex-pros does nobody any favours. Pardon me, but since when did being a top player and being a successful manager ever coincide? Rarely, if ever - Cloughie is the exception rather than the rule? Look at some of the successful players of recent years that have flirted with management - Shearer, Gullit, Zola, Ince - with limited success to say the least - there's no direct correlation - Preston players famously tried to get Bobby Charlton to realise they simply weren't gifted enough to do the things he was asking of them and there might give a clue to why former players from the highest level fail - too often they want genuine talent not journeymen. Oh, and I won't mention Carlton Palmer as manager or player out of a sense of public decency.

Management is about character and requires completely different skills, and as SAF proved, man-management and motivation are the most valuable, along with being in the right place at the right time. My concern is that a potentially serious issue is being ring fenced by some self-serving has beens and I'm not at all comfortable it is being done for genuinely altruistic reasons.

But if for instance, Lucas Radebe threw his hat in the ring for the Leeds job at any point, the problem would be not appointing him

Its all blindly agenda driven

Les Ferdinand has just been brought back to QPR as head of football operations
but of course that wont count because its not a managers, assistant or coaches job.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...perations.html

The lack of black managers in England has prompted calls for a Rooney Rule to be introduced here but, as the US experience shows, it is not that simple. Opinion is divided, even among the minority community. Some of those who have taken the qualifications argue too few of their peers have been prepared to do the same.

Its essentially the same glass ceiling argument about men in the boardroom thinking of women as inferior

However the process works the interviewer will, almost certainly, be white. In 1993 Batson told this paper, “There still aren’t many black people in boardrooms. That’s the next step.” Twenty years on that step is still to be taken, and it is probably the main reason for the lack of black managers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...s-8930213.html

[IngramJohn]

Originally Posted by Greenman

Very droll Ingram John It takes more than that to offend or nark me-and then watch out because I make trolls look like Disney characters when really riled - but then why bother when I don't know you and you don't know me well enough so it cancels that out. You know what you know about Liverpool, and I know what I know and there we differ obviously. I don't intend to get into a slanging match it's not worth it, so please feel free to say what you want, and I shall continue to do so too. That way we are happy

WATCH OUT! ... wow, that's nearly threatening behaviour! Better not get you really riled Greeny, God knows what could happen?

I do, however, agree with you that the subject of Gerrard and Liverpool now needs to stop because my ribs can't take it anymore!

Respect my Man ... from I.J (the 'troll').

[Greenman]

I said droll not troll I.J. I would never call anyone that on here, well not with Mods around anyway. I am reminded of that quote of your illustrious former Forest manager Mr Brian Clough "we'd sit down, discuss the matter for twenty minutes and then in the end decide that in fact I was right all along" (or words to that effect)

Incidentally Roy Keane wrote in the Mail that people should stop knocking Gerrard so if he, a former Utd hard-man player can say that, and indeed Gary Neville, the one who ran half the length of the pitch shaking his shirt at Liverpool fans, so should others - history will judge Gerrard, Rooney etc in the end. RESPECT right back atcha my friend.

What do people think about this idea that the England football team should moved out of Wembley and allow a US American Football team to be based there? I'd love to know(on a good night of course) what other stadia can hold 80,000+ people, UNLESS they use West Ham's imminent tenancy of the Olympic stadium as a base?

[Meini Hirion]

Can you two go and get a room ?

[buttsie]

Somewhere like the argument clinic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDjCqjzbvJY

[Greenman]

Oh sorry is this not the right room for an argument, I only wanted the five minute one
We're fine chaps, no animosity, just good-natured banter from VEF members-it happens from time to time.

Did you know the BBC is bringing back the Monday FA Cup Draw fpr the 2014-15 season, starting with the first one on Monday live from St George's Park, the National Football Centre on 27th October in the early evening.

[Bobster88]

Giorgio Chiellini scored all three goals as Italy beat Azerbaijan 2-1 in Euro 2016.

A game he won't forget I'm sure. Does that count as a hat trick?!

[buttsie]

In Italy their probably already calling it match fixing i'd expect


Bitten by Suarez and now hes lethal in front of goal

Bite me Luis


And in an intriguing twist the man who caused World Cup shame when taking a bite out of Chiellini in Brazil, Barcelona star Luis Suarez, was returning for the first time since that dental attack for Uruguay in a friendly in Saudi Arabia.

"It would have been a great pity if we hadn't won tonight," Chiellini told Rai.

"We all showed what we're capable of and I think the public appreciated our performance. This is a win that will serve us well for the future."


http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/i...11-114lkq.html

[IngramJohn]

Originally Posted by Meini Hirion

Can you two go and get a room ?

Would do, but my 'better half' don't let me out the house!

Handbags at 5 paces ... no probs ... let's talk football.

[buttsie]

Lets face it Gerrard , Lampard , Rooney , Owen and all the other over achieving club players
are going to go down in England history as under achievers because a few teams in the 90s got to the Semis because they had a quality inform TEAM that were actually feared
by everyone but Germany & Brazil...they never beat them when it counts

Gerrard will get his saint hood for his services to Liverpool and Liverpool alone
Anyone who can bring a team back from 0-3 (2005 champions league)at half time is pretty special...the Shevchenko miss at the death from point blank took great skill to make sure it didnt go in is all I will say

Whats upset Gerrard form this year - no forwards of any consequence to pass to
Suarez / sturridge / sterling were white lightening compared to balotelli / borini / lambert

He seems to be over his soft tissue injuries which plagued him for 2 seasons
but something tells me those calling for him to be used wisely as a 1 game a week player are on the money

That he's now being man marked makes his job ever harder

Rodgers needs to find a new outlet man for that first pass from defence to midfield

Groom someone to become the next Gerrard or perish