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Old May 25th, 2017, 09:45 AM   #521
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Originally Posted by diamelsx View Post
In life it is the so called friends that have betrayed you that you end up having the most contempt for. I still do not see how this does not fall on the party. They knew going in that the groups were not going to support Hillary and they did it anyway. So they failed in their prime objective which was putting forth a canindate the voters will support. Again I ask the question do you stand with the one who is your enemy or do you stand with the one who is going to betray you?
It appears to me that you have bought into the Republican controlled mainstream press propaganda labeling Hillary Clinton as "corrupt" and a "liar." There are corrupt Democratic senators who betray their constituents (talking about you Diane Feinstein), but a more nuanced understanding of government is necessary. The mandatory sentencing and welfare reform laws Bill Clinton signed off on were widely applauded in African American communities at the time. The resulting problems are good illustrations of the law of unintended consequences.

How are the progressives supposed to dominate politically in a country where 26% of voters are Republican, 29% Democrat, and 42% independent? When independents are queried about their leanings the breakdown moves to 45% Democrat and 42% Republican according to a January 2016 Gallup poll. (Please note that fivethirtyeight.com considers Gallup polls to have a liberal bias.) In 2010, Gallup found that more independent voters leaned Republican. The polls show a couple of trends. First, fewer voters identify with either party. Second, political opinion in this country is more or less equally divided.

Political leanings are misleading in themselves. Democrats have a huge advantage in California, New York, and most urban areas, but are badly outnumbered in many states in the Deep South and Midwest. The U.S. Constitution gives Republicans disproportionate power in the Senate because red states with small populations receive the same number of senators as California with its 39+ million people. There is also the fact that Republican voters are more likely to cast ballots than progressive voters, who tend to be younger. This is particularly true in the off year mid-term elections where voter turnout is usually less than 30%. Two thirds of the Senate is elected in these off year elections.

Your belief in a massive movement of voters embracing a progressive agenda seems very unlikely. It would take another meltdown of the proportions of the Great Depression with 25-30% unemployment to drive that type of mandate. I suppose North Korea could nuke us, but if they do they will be hitting blue states on the west coast. In any event, a SCOTUS that will be tilted rightwards for the next 25 to 30 years will declare most progressive legislation unconstitutional.

All of this means that a level of bipartisan consensus is needed to pass legislation. We have already seen that philosophical differences within the parties themselves have frustrated attempts to pass legislation found to be too extreme. There is no way that Tea Party conservatives will sign off on progressive legislation to expand the reach of government or that progressives will sign off on attempts to curtail abortion and LGBTQ rights. Therefore, it is misguided to characterize bi-partisan, centrist legislation as "betrayal."

We do not really differ in our visions of what we would like to see in this country. My political philosophy is probably way more radical than yours in fact. However, I know that my thinking is very much outside the norm and recognize the necessity of consensus, bridge building, and compromise to drive change. I truly believe that there is a middle ground to be found where broad agreement exists on many issues. Really, my comments and reading selections are attempts to pass on the lessons I have learned over the past 50 years and not meant to belittle you. You represent the future and hope for change. Whereas, I am unlikely to be around in 15 years.

My sister who spent several years in Washington, D.C. as an environmental lobbyist is entertaining the hope that Trump's election and administration will be where we hit bottom politically and begin to come together again.
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Old May 25th, 2017, 06:05 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by Brian249x View Post
It appears to me that you have bought into the Republican controlled mainstream press propaganda labeling Hillary Clinton as "corrupt" and a "liar." There are corrupt Democratic senators who betray their constituents (talking about you Diane Feinstein), but a more nuanced understanding of government is necessary. The mandatory sentencing and welfare reform laws Bill Clinton signed off on were widely applauded in African American communities at the time. The resulting problems are good illustrations of the law of unintended consequences.
As with most things with the Clintons the applause on the Crime bill in the black community was generational. The Clinton administration was able to get the support of the black church so thus the older African Americans were able to ignore the dog whistle and fell in line. The consequences were always intended remember Republican strategist Dick Morris was the one advising the Clintons on the policies.

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Originally Posted by Brian249x
How are the progressives supposed to dominate politically in a country where 26% of voters are Republican, 29% Democrat, and 42% independent? When independents are queried about their leanings the breakdown moves to 45% Democrat and 42% Republican according to a January 2016 Gallup poll. (Please note that fivethirtyeight.com considers Gallup polls to have a liberal bias.) In 2010, Gallup found that more independent voters leaned Republican. The polls show a couple of trends. First, fewer voters identify with either party. Second, political opinion in this country is more or less equally divided.
It isnot not the polls but the interpretation of them that I disagree with. Do the research on the popularity of progressive policies and you may begin to understand why I Conservative popularity is mostly illusionary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian249x
Political leanings are misleading in themselves. Democrats have a huge advantage in California, New York, and most urban areas, but are badly outnumbered in many states in the Deep South and Midwest.
You are going say I am crazy but I am going to say it is not about the numbers but more about the representation why the Democratic party is failing so badly in the south and midwest. If Democrats would run left especially on labor issues and actually give their voters someone to vote for they would have more representation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian249x
There is also the fact that Republican voters are more likely to cast ballots than progressive voters, who tend to be younger. This is particularly true in the off year mid-term elections where voter turnout is usually less than 30%. Two thirds of the Senate is elected in these off year elections.
Responsibility for voter turnout falls on the party. The problem is the party keeps running canindates who are more and more out of touch with their voters due to the fact they keep running further and further right each cycle. Voters end up losing their reason to vote when the Democrat tries to run as a little less Republican than the Republican. As I said before Republican popularity is largely illusionary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian249x
Your belief in a massive movement of voters embracing a progressive agenda seems very unlikely. It would take another meltdown of the proportions of the Great Depression with 25-30% unemployment to drive that type of mandate.
The centrists have made you lower your expectations the populace want change and not gradual change either. This is why centrist canindates will not fare well for the foreseeable future. This is why wide swings will become more than possible, they are still looking for the answer to their problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian249x
All of this means that a level of bipartisan consensus is needed to pass legislation. We have already seen that philosophical differences within the parties themselves have frustrated attempts to pass legislation found to be too extreme. There is no way that Tea Party conservatives will sign off on progressive legislation to expand the reach of government or that progressives will sign off on attempts to curtail abortion and LGBTQ rights. Therefore, it is misguided to characterize bi-partisan, centrist legislation as "betrayal."
The problem with the centrists is that they always want to make deals and the other side knows this and exploits the knowledge also the "deals" give cover to do business on the side to further subvert interests. That is why so many politicans end up becoming lobbyists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian249x
We do not really differ in our visions of what we would like to see in this country. My political philosophy is probably way more radical than yours in fact. However, I know that my thinking is very much outside the norm and recognize the necessity of consensus, bridge building, and compromise to drive change. I truly believe that there is a middle ground to be found where broad agreement exists on many issues. Really, my comments and reading selections are attempts to pass on the lessons I have learned over the past 50 years and not meant to belittle you. You represent the future and hope for change. Whereas, I am unlikely to be around in 15 years.
We do not differ much different perspectives causing us to weigh the variables differently and what the facts actually mean, but no I do not think we are far apart.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian249x
My sister who spent several years in Washington, D.C. as an environmental lobbyist is entertaining the hope that Trump's election and administration will be where we hit bottom politically and begin to come together again.
hopefully she is correc..t
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Old May 26th, 2017, 12:08 AM   #523
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Default Kushner 'under FBI scrutiny' in Russia investigation - US sources

President Donald Trump's son-in-law and adviser, Jared Kushner, is under FBI scrutiny as part of the Russia investigation, US media report.

Investigators believe Mr Kushner, 36, has significant information relevant to their inquiry, US officials told NBC News.

The FBI is looking into potential links between Mr Trump's campaign team and Russia during the 2016 elections.

Mr Trump denies any collusion between his campaign and Russia.

Details:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40054753
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Old May 27th, 2017, 01:09 AM   #524
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Default Jared Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Russia, new report alleges

CNN also has the following story...

Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and one of the senior advisers in the Trump administration, was seeking a private communications channel with the Kremlin, according to a new report in The Washington Post.

Kushner and Sergei Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to Washington, spoke of the possibility of coordinating a secret and secure communications channel between the Trump transition team and the Kremlin, U.S. officials briefed on intelligence reports told The Post.

Kushner suggested the use of Russian diplomatic facilities as a way to shield their pre-inauguration discussions from monitoring, Kislyak allegedly told his superiors in Moscow. The idea was broached during a meeting between Kushner and Kislyak during an early December meeting at Trump Tower, the paper said.

That was based on intercepts of Russian communications that were reviewed by U.S. officials, although neither the meeting nor the communications of the Americans involved were under U.S. surveillance, officials told the Post.

Michael Flynn, President Trump’s former National Security Adviser, also attended the meeting.

The meeting was initially disclosed in March by the White House. But the FBI now considers the meeting, in addition to another one Kushner had with a Russian banker, to be of investigative interest, people familiar with the matter told the Post.

The White House declined to comment on the report, as did Robert Kelner, a lawyer for Flynn.

The Russian embassy did not reply to requests for comment


Details:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...t-alleges.html
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Old May 27th, 2017, 01:28 AM   #525
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Default Jared Keshner Coming under More Scrutiny

Jared Kushner's business model is detailed. It is not clear how much of his real estate empire he has actually divested.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/m...pire.html?_r=0

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.0c1d06681423

It does appear that he and Ivanka are following her father's lead of continuing to profit from their businesses while in office.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.20039b34f09a

I really don't understand the moral bankruptcy of multimillionaires who feel the need to fatten their bank accounts by preying on poor families. Personally, I would like to punch such people's lights out.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 12:34 PM   #526
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Why am I not surprised???

Trump Org Says Keeping Promise to Donate All Foreign Profits Is Too Hard, So It’s Not

Quote:
In early January, Donald Trump’s personal lawyer promised that the Trump Organization would donate hotel profits from foreign governments to the U.S. Treasury. It was Trump’s way of trying to relieve concerns about receiving foreign emoluments without giving up his stake in his company. “This way it is the American people who will profit,” the lawyer said.
Less than six months later, the Trump Organization has said it does not plan to fulfill that promise.
Quote:
Instead, the Trump Organization will only include obvious payments from foreign governments when making its donation. Profits that are more difficult to link to a foreign government — those from state-owned businesses that isn’t obviously state-owned, for example — would remain with the Trump Organization. The burden of flagging payments from foreign governments, the Trump Organization appears to be suggesting, is on foreign governments, not the company itself. As Maryland representative Elijah Cummings, the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, wrote in a letter to the Trump Organization, that’s a woefully inadequate setup. “Under the policy outlined in this pamphlet, foreign governments could provide prohibited emoluments to President Trump, for example through organizations such as RT, the propaganda arm of the Russian government,” he wrote. “Those payments would not be tracked in any way and would be hidden from the American public.”
Further rankling Cummings is the Trump Organization’s plan to estimate foreign profits, rather than tracking them so an exact amount can be donated. The pamphlet calls the idea of tracking these payments impossible “without an inordinate amount of time, resources and specialists.”
The Trump Budget Is Really Just a Cynical Ploy

Quote:
So why is the administration going through the motions of releasing a savage and unpopular budget that it really has no intention of implementing? The only answer that makes much sense is that it is a sop to the movement conservatives who really hate the safety-net programs the budget eviscerates, and to the tea-party activists who really do care about levels of federal spending and the size of debt and deficits. Both factions are, indeed, personally represented by Trump budget director Mick Mulvaney, who put together this monster of a budget document.
When the spending cuts go nowhere and are put on some distant back burner so that the real priority of tax cuts can whip through Congress, Trump can shrug and point to Mulvaney’s budget as an indication of what he would have liked to have accomplished had not those evil Democrats and weak-kneed RINOs stopped him. And then the movement conservatives and tea-party activists will have nowhere to go but to try to hold onto Republican control of Congress in 2018, and start the process all over again. It’s all kind of a sick joke.
It’s a cynical game the White House is playing. But it’s far
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Old May 28th, 2017, 07:02 PM   #527
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Hilarity of the day:

Quote:
President Trump took time during comments to the U.S. Naval Air Base in Italy on Saturday to compliment other world leaders, referring for the second time in a month to Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as "Justin from Canada."
Source: http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...in-from-canada
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Old May 28th, 2017, 09:01 PM   #528
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Default Learning from a friend's example.

If Trump is removed from office - not just impeached, but actually forced to resign or removed - would he try his hand at playing puppet-master-Putin to Mike Pense's Medvedev? Is someone in the Trump camp even now planning to lubricate an organizational butt-plug for the possible need to stretch the Veep's metaphorical ass for Der Fuhrer's manipulating hand? Would he try to run again, after an interval? (Too old? Too Vain?)

I don't think it's ever happened at any level above city or state politics before. But then, nothing about this administration has ever happened before.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 10:37 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by xenontrioxide View Post
If Trump is removed from office - not just impeached, but actually forced to resign or removed - would he try his hand at playing puppet-master-Putin to Mike Pense's Medvedev? Is someone in the Trump camp even now planning to lubricate an organizational butt-plug for the possible need to stretch the Veep's metaphorical ass for Der Fuhrer's manipulating hand? Would he try to run again, after an interval? (Too old? Too Vain?)

I don't think it's ever happened at any level above city or state politics before. But then, nothing about this administration has ever happened before.
Umm you are looking at this wrong. Trump is the puppet while Pence is the one working behind the scenes. Trump's antics is suppose to give cover. If he is removed from office he will have no influence over his replacement. Really he had no influence to begin with, which is why it is why all of the promises on the campaign trail (healthcare, non interventionist, jobs) are going to ring hollow. It does not matter what bad stuff happens when Trump gets put out of office the Republicans can put all of the bad stuff on him and the people will view Pence as a breath of fresh air not realizing he is the same dope new package that has been screwing all along...
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Old May 28th, 2017, 10:56 PM   #530
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Default

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Originally Posted by diamelsx View Post
Umm you are looking at this wrong. Trump is the puppet while Pence is the one working behind the scenes. Trump's antics is suppose to give cover. If he is removed from office he will have no influence over his replacement. Really he had no influence to begin with, which is why it is why all of the promises on the campaign trail (healthcare, non interventionist, jobs) are going to ring hollow. It does not matter what bad stuff happens when Trump gets put out of office the Republicans can put all of the bad stuff on him and the people will view Pence as a breath of fresh air not realizing he is the same dope new package that has been screwing all along...
So - should we ask the Mods to rename this thread "President Mike Pence's First 100 Days & Beyond"?

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