Things Noticeable this week

[vinceprince]

As I understand it rich people use these tax haven schemes largely due to their secrecy. (These Islands have refused to join the public register scheme) The money goes nowhere near these 'Islands' in reality it stays in the UK. However, it may mean that they could hide income from their UK tax returns.

In the UK criminal offences will apply if a taxpayer fails to notify HMRC of their liability to tax, fails to file a return or files an inaccurate return.

So if this leak means that many of these people will then have no choice other than to declare it on their tax return then this leak of information can only be a good thing unless you're one of these rich people. The more leaks and transparency the better I say.

[Rogerbh]

The smart rich stay rich by using such methods. I recall a pharma giant quoted as talking about tax havens in the 1950's. Statute of limitations and a lack of knowledge/will by the authorities usually means nothing happens to them.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/offshor...vens-1.3520086

That article says offshore credit cards have been cracked down on, but I never see any articles on anyone being arrested for it. There is a question on US tax returns that asks about foreign controlled bank accounts - but how would they ever know about such accounts? If someone has a foreign corporation, the ability to pay for your personal use seems to be a very tempting tax evasion method.

[haroldeye]

So long as nothing illegal has gone on what is the problem. Both the Caymans and Bermuda have apparently signed up to some convention that requires them to report to HRMC any accounts held by UK citizens. Most of the accounts there are trusts held by major investment and pensions companies and so many people on this site may unknowingly be benefitting from such legal arrangements.

If they are in breach of the law then I would hope HMRC insists on prosecution rather than the usual pay us a hefty fine and we'll let you off a prison visit.

[CARLTON BROWN]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

As I understand it rich people use these tax haven schemes largely due to their secrecy. (These Islands have refused to join the public register scheme) The money goes nowhere near these 'Islands' in reality it stays in the UK. However, it may mean that they could hide income from their UK tax returns.

In the UK criminal offences will apply if a taxpayer fails to notify HMRC of their liability to tax, fails to file a return or files an inaccurate return.

So if this leak means that many of these people will then have no choice other than to declare it on their tax return then this leak of information can only be a good thing unless you're one of these rich people. The more leaks and transparency the better I say.

It almost sounds okay put like that, but I suspect the so called leak (actually theft of confidential data), has been professionally undertaken by the British or American intelligence services and it's as simple as that. IMHO, the BBC News people are nothing more than part of a public front for this operation, along with a few foreign news services. To me, there is something rather wrong about all this and especially the suggestion that we are now supposed to treat our very unsatisfactory administration in the UK like a charity we have some kind of moral obligation to support.

[Brecht]

The event that shaped the 20th century



Unfortunately it happened in the "wrong" country. Capitalism and socialism are historical stages on the evolutionary scale of a society. They are not a matter of geographical, political and military blocs or alliances.

The improvement of the living conditions of the working class in the western world, all the rights that most working people take for granted today, are the direct result of the fear from revolutionary upheavals that were already happening, like in Germany at the end of WWI. The welfare state, universal healthcare, unemployment insurance, paid vacation, paid sick leave, dismissal protection would not exist without the struggle of the labor movement and the capitalist fear from what the October Revolution stood for.

Now that the revolutionary threat is largely gone and the working class lulled into sleep, the aforementioned achievements are gradually dismantled. Honest working people have been convinced that unions are a bad thing but tax evasion as practiced by the super rich just something "everybody would love to do". What the Paradise Papers revealed are the tax frauds of the super rich, not people like you and me. We're talking about fraud on a mass scale. It involves Hollywood stars, politicians, wealthy businessmen, corporations and others whose wealth is worth millions and billions. They benefit from the framework and infrastructure that was financed by all our taxes and without which their businesses would not be possible. They owe their wealth to the very society they're hiding their profits from.

Hiding millions in some offshore company on the Cayman Islands is not the same as your appointment with your accountant.

[uli12345]

Dear old communist Friend palo
I don't like Korn or such stupid drinks!
I only like you with your communism Propaganda in our forum!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihKq34Ozc



Mein Führer ich kann wieder gehen


Uli

[CARLTON BROWN]

Originally Posted by Brecht

The event that shaped the 20th century



Unfortunately it happened in the "wrong" country. Capitalism and socialism are historical stages on the evolutionary scale of a society. They are not a matter of geographical, political and military blocs or alliances.

The improvement of the living conditions of the working class in the western world, all the rights that most working people take for granted today, are the direct result of the fear from revolutionary upheavals that were already happening, like in Germany at the end of WWI. The welfare state, universal healthcare, unemployment insurance, paid vacation, paid sick leave, dismissal protection would not exist without the struggle of the labor movement and the capitalist fear from what the October Revolution stood for.

Now that the revolutionary threat is largely gone and the working class lulled into sleep, the aforementioned achievements are gradually dismantled. Honest working people have been convinced that unions are a bad thing but tax evasion as practiced by the super rich just something "everybody would love to do". What the Paradise Papers revealed are the tax frauds of the super rich, not people like you and me. We're talking about fraud on a mass scale. It involves Hollywood stars, politicians, wealthy businessmen, corporations and others whose wealth is worth millions and billions. They benefit from the framework and infrastructure that was financed by all our taxes and without which their businesses would not be possible. They owe their wealth to the very society they're hiding their profits from.

Hiding millions in some offshore company on the Cayman Islands is not the same as your appointment with your accountant.

What tax fraud? Nobody is so far suggesting that any laws have been broken!

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

So long as nothing illegal has gone on what is the problem. Both the Caymans and Bermuda have apparently signed up to some convention that requires them to report to HRMC any accounts held by UK citizens. Most of the accounts there are trusts held by major investment and pensions companies and so many people on this site may unknowingly be benefitting from such legal arrangements.

If they are in breach of the law then I would hope HMRC insists on prosecution rather than the usual pay us a hefty fine and we'll let you off a prison visit.

That convention only requires them to comply with UK law enforcement agencies on a specific request it does not require them give details of all their accounts and clients to the UK authorities.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...pany-registers

Unless you have transparent access to both their tax return and all this 'overseas' information it is impossible to say if they are doing anything illegal.

As the Government tells us when spying on everything else we do if they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear.

Not sure why these Carribean Islands are so keen to maintain the status quo, their people don't seem to do that well out of it, when a hurricane blows through the people are left without a pot to piss in and have to beg for scraps of UK aid.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

I spent a lot of time in corporate taxation. Delaware is a favorite play to park a corporation because the state law regarding corporations is very favorable. .....

It is kinda like watching Regan saying that taxation on corporate dividends was double taxation - which it is - but it is only a complaint of the very wealthy.

That's true for Delaware, but even in the UE zone, there is a huge tax heaven.

Here is the translation of a French economist "Olivier Delamarche":

On the tax evasion it would be necessary to put a small precision. It is because they often talk to you about tax evasion by talking to you about the few individuals who have sheltered their fortune in the Bahamas or elsewhere.
This is not tax evasion.
The real tax evasion is, I remind you, a poor country called Ireland, which was introduced in UE and to which UE gave as an economic model, because it had not because of its poverty, the companies that would go to Ireland, would have between 6 and 8% of taxes and maybe even less if they negotiated well. Which means that within UE, put in place by UE, we have a country that is a center of tax evasion for all the companies of the world. That means that today the CAC40 companies do not pay as much as a small local business 30% on its results and that when the shareholders of the small company will take the dividend they will be taxed again. No, big companies like TOTAL for example, which can afford to put subsidiaries and go through Ireland, will pay in total on their result, 7 to 8%, not 30~33%.
That's tax evasion and it's hundreds of billions.

After the 2008 crisis, the EU should have imposed a tax rate similar to Ireland, but governments have done nothing because political parties are funded by big business.

[Rogerbh]

There use to be a concept of "consistency" which was required in US tax law. A corporation's decisions had to be treated the same way in every country. Then came "check the box" - https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanal.../#3e20fe52756a Many people warned congress not to pass this law.

I never thought this would pass but enough palms were greased and it did. So the net result is that countries like Ireland can arrange their laws so that companies like Apple can place the bulk of their taxable income in it for US purposes but not for Irish purposes. So some income has no place to be taxed, great huh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRmLm6tYNhQ If you can find the video where the Senators were talking to Tim Cook, it was like they were lining up to fellate him as they said how great Apple was.

I don't see anyone trying to change the law. It is like congress legalized corporate tax evasion.