ID Projects, ID Sheets & ID CSVs ( *** Discussion *** )

[Rob4]

Originally Posted by fannatastic

Actor category is currently defined here as follows:

Actor
Type
ID
Gender
Professional Name
Aliases
Real Name
Date of Birth
Place of Birth
Nationality
Comments
______________________________________

Proposed future Actor format:

Actor
Type
ID
Gender
Professional Name
Aliases
Date of Birth
Nationality
Links
Comments

Notes
Professional Name: best porn name that we here at VEF prefer.
Aliases: only important and widely used Aliases should be listed, e.g. Ramona Kassel for Desiree Barclay or Denise Remplace for Dagmar Lost.
Real Name: deleted.
Place of Birth: deleted. No need for this and Nationality.
Nationality: this could contain Country data in fact, e.g. USA or UK or Hungary, not American or British or Hungarian. Whichever is chosen, Nationality is a good title because first letter of each field title is different. Could use shorthand country codes to save space, similar to mag series codes.
Links: field added for http://... links, with multiple links separated by semi-colons. Other categories would benefit from having a Links field, but it may be better to add Links data in the future to avoid clutter. In other words, subsets without Links could be used for the time being.

All comments welcome.

this looks comprehensive enough for me.

in relation to nationality i've been using as best to my recollection the shortening of country names as used in international sporting events eg HUN, CZE, USA, RUS, etc.
the only exception to this has been UK, which should be 'GBR' i guess. it would keep them all at 3 letters each.

[Al Gebra]

Originally Posted by Rob4

There was definitely a stylistic change for the photosets around the early to mid eighties. i think somewhere around there should be the cut off point. i'm happy to take guidance on someone in possession of the magazines themselves to advise on this?

I would say that the end of 1983 (publication date of the original mag series) would be an appropriate cut-off point. You will hardly find a corresponding loop to stories published later than 1983.

But that doesn't resolve the problem concerning unknown model names.

-> 1984 = CC Classic
1984 -> = CC Model (?)

[Rob4]

Originally Posted by Al Gebra

But that doesn't resolve the problem concerning unknown model names.

-> 1984 = CC Classic
1984 -> = CC Model (?)

I would say as a rule of thumb <- 1984 a name from within the mag should be used if no other is forthcoming and 1984 -> we should continue looking for the professional name while we are still finding them regularly, and think again when we hit a brick wall.

hopefully dales won't run out of steam...

[BentBastard]

Originally Posted by fannatastic

~
Proposed future Actor format:

Actor
Type
ID
Gender
Professional Name
Aliases
Date of Birth
Nationality
Links
Comments
~
All comments welcome.

My 2 cents
ID: best porn name that we here at VEF prefer, if we are in agreement in the first place then this should rarely if ever change, obviously if it is changed then all other csv's linking to the model need to be updated. In many cases this will be the same as Professional Name: but need not be.
Professional Name: A widely accepted name for the model, this may change if a better name is found.
For example, ID: Barbara (CC Classic) Professional Name: 'Tina(16)'@EGAFD Aliases: Barbara (CC Classic)
If a film listing or better name is found then that name can replace the Professional Name, 'Tina(16)'@EGAFD can be added to the Aliases, but her ID will remain as Barbara (CC Classic)

Aliases: Maria Szolontai (now there's a girl with an identity crisis) is a perfect example of why I think all known aliases should be listed, if someone ID'ng a model knows she appeared in a film as XYZ then having the alias XYZ listed will help them locate the model ID that we are using more readily and hopefully avoid/reduce the instances of models being listed multiple times under different names

Nationality: I think Rob4's suggestion to use 3-letter codes for the nationality is good one.
As we've discussed previously though nationality is a tricky one (as opposed to Place of birth), for example if an actress was born in HUN, worked firstly in GBR before becoming a USA national and continuing her career there, then what is her nationality?

As for distinguishing between (CC Classic) or (CC Model), whatever you choose please include them! Although an actress may not have appeared in film and may not be officially recognised outside VEF including them is useful for aiding in cross-referencing mags film photo sets and playing cards.
Personally I would refer to all made up names simply as Barbara* or 'Barbara' @VEF.

To digress, Is the shoot name for a model that appears in the set info

always the same as what appears in the original mag strory? and, if different which should be listed?

Finally, I think this all this disccuion can't be helping those actually ID'ng models and maintaining the csv's (Sorry about this post!)
Perhaps a Mod or someone overseeing these projects could start a dissusion thread (feel free to move/delete this post)
BB

[Rob4]

is this thread also going to be the discussion thread for agreeing names... or just the format of the information?

[icu]

I think we should use this thread for thinks like format, structure, ... discussions.
The discussions about the models should be kept in to other thread imo.

[fannatastic]

I have not forgotten about renaming the the definitive kk identification thread [reorganizing] thread to CC data in CSV format.

There is lot of important info in that thread, info which is hard to find with the existing name. However, before the renaming takes place, I think a couple of extra CSV lists should be created and slight changes made to a few of the existing lists. (Some new lists could wait until after the renaming.)

Details of some of the proposed changes are in the next post, but here is a summary:

Rename existing .A to .PA (for Photoset Actor)
Rename existing .P to .PS (for Photoset Story)

Create new .SA Shoot Actor using info in .PA, .PS, .RA, .RS, .RT
Create new .A Actor using info in .SA
.

[fannatastic]

Here are my latest thoughts about the .A Actor category. I have tried to take on board comments about my earlier proposals. The .A category is intended to be a list of actors who perform in mags, films and videos from CC and other companies. Therefore it is not CC-specific.

The proposed CSV format is below. Some previous fields have been deleted and these are not mentioned.

Actor
Type
Gender
Name
AKA (Also Known As)
Date of birth
Country of birth
Links
Comments

Notes
Type: .A
Gender: single-letter code for gender, F = female or M = male or S = shemale
Name: professional / porn name of actor that we here at VEF think is the best. If the professional name is unknown, a Shoot Actor Alias should be used (see .SA Shoot Actor below). If actor is unnamed in all of his or her shoots, an ID based on the earliest Shoot ID should be used (please see .SA again).
AKA: other porn name(s) by which actor is known, with multiple names separated by ;
Date of birth: format is D Mon Year, where D = number of day in month
Country of birth: three letter upper-case code for country (exact code to be agreed)
Links: website link(s), with multiple links separated by ;

Discussion
As Real Name has been deleted, Professional Name can be changed to just Name without any confusion arising. Aliases has been changed to AKA to avoid confusion with Shoot Actor Alias (see post 19 below). Nationality has been changed to Country of birth.

All comments welcome.

[fannatastic]

The proposed Shoot Actor category is explained below.

Shoot Actor
Type
Shoot
Gender
Number
Alias
Name
Sex Action
Links
Comments

Notes
Type: .SA
Gender: single-letter code for gender, F = female or M = male or S = shemale
Number: number of female/male/shemale in shoot. 1 for first, 2 for second, etc.
Alias: alias name given to actor in this shoot, enclosed by single-quote character (ASCII character 39 decimal), e.g. 'Barbara'
Name: porn name of actor, copied from Actor Name (in .A Actor list)
Sex Action: codes for sex action performed by actor with semi-colon separator, e.g. A;DP
Links: website link(s), with multiple links separated by ;
Comments: could include distinctive features relating to this actor that help with identification, such as physical appearance and clothing.

Discussion
Number is 1 in magazine story for actor who appears first as viewed from top to bottom and left to right (excluding cover pics). Shoot Name has been changed to Alias to avoid confusion with Name. So that users can tell the difference instantly between Alias and Name, Alias should have the single-quote character ' at the start and end, e.g. 'Barbara' (single-quote because double-quote " cannot be used.) Name could be the same as Alias if actor's porn name is unknown and Alias is the best known alias. For an actor with unknown Name who never has an Alias, for example in an early mag with no text, Name should be Shoot.Gender.Number from the actor's earliest known shoot. (N.B. This Name info applies more to .A Actor from which Name is copied.) Action has been changed back to Sex Action.

All comments welcome.

[Rob4]

i'm not too keen on the 2 letter country codes. many of them are not easily recognisable at first glance and people would have to refer to the master list all the time. i think the sporting event 3 letter codes are much easier on the eye.
its probably not that much of a problem for these lists as most of the nationalities in cc are well known e.g. HU (HUN), DE (GER), etc. but i can see this format being adopted by future id projects, which may become confusing when you have something like HR for Croatia and UA for Ukraine.