Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

Clearly they over-estimated themselves

Impossible.

[vo1v0d]

The PM is going on a 'charm offensive' to rally support. Like a blind Ewok against the Death Star.

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by vo1v0d

The PM is going on a 'charm offensive' to rally support. Like a blind Ewok against the Death Star.

More offensive than charming...

[bjcb0]

Originally Posted by palo5

There's something bizarre in this, because UK always thought that EU could not survive without the UK finance and security sector, and it gave them leverage. Clearly they over-estimated themselves

The more arrogant Brexiteers certainly took this view, but I would view them as a minority. The EU and the UK are diminished by Brexit: we would be better together.

[jacques22]

Originally Posted by judy84

Make no mistake though the backstop blows the GFA apart.

https://www.pressreader.com/

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86931

What are you smoking? You've completely misread the article you've quoted.
The Eureferendum article says that a no-deal scenario would represent a threat to the Good Friday Agreement.
Just in case you don't understand what the Irish backstop is: it means that Northern Ireland stays in the Customs Union and follows some rules of the Single Market until a better solution is found. Which is a threat to the constitutional integrity of the UK, according to some Brexiters.

Originally Posted by judy84

The UK must accept an invisible border in Ireland as the end point and work backwards in terms of the policy needed to get there. This requires that there be no border checks on goods for either technical and health standard compliance or customs purposes.

Not happening. First, you would violate the rules of trade. And any third country could then dump whatever garbage on the UK market via Northern Ireland. See what happened with the Asian shrimps, laced with antibiotics, that caused blindness (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tion-explained). You don't want the UK to become the trash of the world, do you?

And second, the EU will fight tooth and nail to protect the integrity of the Single Market. In the worst case scenario, the EU could quarantine Northern Ireland and deliver goods for Northern Ireland via the Republic. If the UK refuses any border control in Northern Ireland, then the EU will have no choice but to divert the shipment of goods to the Republic and have them checked in the Republic before they reach Northern Ireland. And make no mistake, the blame will be put on the UK for failing to cooperate and respect the rules of trade.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

Or are we just going to work this out on the night before the 29th?

Government are prepared, Vince. Army reserves are called up, and there is now a Department for Food Supply, so rations can be managed. There is even a Suicide Prevention Minister these days

Brexiters have thought of everything. Except they painted a different picture 3 years ago

[judy84]

The implementation of the backstop would amount to a change in Northern Ireland’s constitutional status without it's people’s consent – a total breach of the peace settlement.

[haunted]

Originally Posted by judy84

The implementation of the backstop would amount to a change in Northern Ireland’s constitutional status without it's people’s consent – a total breach of the peace settlement.

As NI voted against Brexit in the referendum you could argue that the implementation of Brexit would amount to a change in it's constitutional status without it's people's consent- in fact directly against the expressed will of the people of NI.

[bjcb0]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

If we crash out on the 29th March we will not be party to these agreements and WTO tariffs will apply. We can waive tariffs on imports but that does not mean that this will be reciprocated by those countries on our exports.

Indeed if we are giving them automatic tariff free access to our market as the ERG propose why would they want a bilateral free trade deal?

This is yet another irony: a Tory government suggesting unilateral free trade, one of the key policies they opposed throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries.

[Sir Spender]

Not sure if this is better posted in Things Noticeable this week or here ? Can the Mods decide please?

For me the biggest tragedy of this whole mess, was that neither leader of the 2 main parties, would publicly recognise the almost identical split between Leave and Remain, within their own parties. Neither front bench showing the guts, leadership or statesman-like qualities needed to put their own party-political interests aside for this one-off, over-whelmingly important issue requiring a cross party solution.

I dont know where the PM is getting her advice from, but she is in the position she is now, through her own choices & faults. There is a subtle difference between single-mindedness, patience & determination on the one hand, and narrow-minded, dogmatic stubbornness on the other.

Delaying the meaningful vote for a month has wasted precious parliamentary time. The EU are playing their cards well and just as anyone could have expected. Sadly, our negotiating strategy seems to have been wrong from the very start. I don’t expect any meaningful EU concessions, at least not until the absolute 11th hour, to try to force our hand into a bad deal.

But calling a vote of no confidence by JC, was also probably a rather pointless waste of valuable time too surely, given that the DUP have been paid off, and nobody could expect Tories to vote against themselves, and so risking a General Election, after such a humiliating defeat on the Governments key Brexit deal. The time for that strategy may have been better if the PM`s Plan B, due shortly, had showed no attempt to listen or engage properly.

What would either main party campaign on anyway as both are so equally split?
Michael Gove`s speech may have been a very successful character assassination of Jeremy Corbyn, designed to whip up the Tories after such a catastrophic defeat, but hardly a glowing inducement to the opposition to cooperate now. Then again, it was JCs choice to call the vote, so maybe he got what he deserved? It seems churlish to put preconditions on talks now though.

What is quite worrying though is the level of appalling vitriol, spiteful opinion & near hatred thrown around quite casually on social media, which continues to divide this great country even further apart. Reasoned rationale debate seems to have given way to abusive shouting. ( not on VEF of course, due to our wonderful Mods !!)