Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[bowlinggreen]

Venezuela appears to be screwed. They need another revolution, like the one the former Soviet comrades had in 1991.

Their inflation is getting as bad as Weimar Germany's was.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Mate, I gotta reply to that before the Commies do, I'll answer it for them so I can laugh, this would be about their response.

US capitalists do that for their own wealth, they pay the workers little and line their own pockets at the expense of the poor. They destroy the ecosystem drilling for oil, they want more population to buy more products that depend on oil as it's base.

Venezuela would be rich if the US had no trade embargo , not fair

Oh, guys like Doheny did do it for their own wealth, absolutely. Same with oil in Saudi and Iran: Brits, Americans, some Dutch (Shell), went around the world looking for oil. The places where they found big strikes ended up very wealthy. That wasn't charity -- it was hard bargaining and smart statecraft.

All these nations subsequently nationalized a lot of their oil industry, but not all of them insisted on running their nations as command economies.

So Saudi Aramco is now Saudi owned, but unlike PDVSA, its run by real oilmen -- Saudis and others, but not some Party commissars. Mexico is the closest parallel to Venezuela and PDVSA -- the Mexicans have made a mess of PEMEX; but Venezuela is much, much worse.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

No, not at all. Quite the reverse, actually.

The US made Venezuela rich. US oilmen found the oilfields and developed them.

There is not ONE unique Party in Venezuela.

Le 6 décembre 1998, Chávez sort victorieux de l’élection présidentielle avec 56 % des voix, la plus forte majorité jamais constatée à cette élection en quarante ans de démocratie vénézuélienne. Le 2 février de l'année suivante, il prête serment sur une constitution qu'il qualifie de moribonde et dont il demandera la modification à deux reprises par la suite. La situation économique du pays est accablante : 80 % de la population vit dans la pauvreté, le taux de chômage est de 18 % et les analystes prévoient un recul du PIB de 5 à 6 % pour les années à venir

On December 6, 1998, Chávez emerged victorious from the presidential election with 56% of the vote, the largest majority ever in this election in forty years of Venezuelan democracy. On 2 February of the following year, he took an oath on a constitution which he described as moribund and which he asked to be amended twice afterwards. The economic situation of the country is overwhelming: 80% of the population lives in poverty, the unemployment rate is 18% and analysts predict a decline in GDP of 5 to 6% for the years to come.

Chavez was democratically elected. There still are several parties in Venezuela.

If USA made Venezuelan people rich, who can you explain the percentage of 80% of the population living in poverty?

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Venezuela appears to be screwed. They need another revolution, like the one the former Soviet comrades had in 1991.

Their inflation is getting as bad as Weimar Germany's was.

I don't know just something about the Venezuelan situation that strikes me is not quite right
They almost strike me like a ran in that the mainstream media is trying to cast them as this great big demon in order to justify an attack on them.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

I don't know just something about the Venezuelan situation that strikes me is not quite right
They almost strike me like a ran in that the mainstream media is trying to cast them as this great big demon in order to justify an attack on them.

There's no reason to attack them. Its their business to run their country terribly if that's what they want to do, but their own people do have a right to have better.

This is a _rich_ country where people are starving, and its a matter of government policy.

Venezuela has massive oil wealth. Their incompetence has lead to a fall in production of almost %50 . . .

They are the #1 ranked oil reserves in the world-- more than Saudi Arabia, 300 billion in proven reserves, that's worth about $10 Trillion, very conservatively.

Their population isn't huge -- 30 odd million. Managed competently, this should be the richest country in South America.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

There's no reason to attack them. Its their business to run their country terribly if that's what they want to do, but their own people do have a right to have better.

This is a _rich_ country where people are starving, and its a matter of government policy.

Venezuela has massive oil wealth. Their incompetence has lead to a fall in production of almost %50 . . .

They are the #1 ranked oil reserves in the world-- more than Saudi Arabia, 300 billion in proven reserves, that's worth about $10 Trillion, very conservatively.

Their population isn't huge -- 30 odd million. Managed competently, this should be the richest country in South America.

thank you for giving us the reason why the US would depose the current government and insert a government who is open to their interests.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

thank you for giving us the reason why the US would depose the current government and insert a government who is open to their interests.

For sure, absolute Wahhbist monarchs would fit better in Venezuelan governement.

Just a little information dating from 2012 about "wealthy" Saudi Arabia.

Ces dernières années, plusieurs petits films diffusés sur Internet ont porté le sujet sur la place publique. On y voit des familles qui vivent au-dessous du seuil de pauvreté, des hommes qui ne gagnent pas plus de 50 dollars par mois… Personne n’a de chiffres précis, mais les autorités affirment que 800 000 familles bénéficient des programmes sociaux. Sachant qu’une famille saoudienne se compose en moyenne de 6 à 8 personnes et que certaines des familles bénéficiaires comptent jusqu’à 15 membres, on peut estimer le nombre total de pauvres à plus de 6 millions, sur un total d’environ 20 millions de Saoudiens. On note par ailleurs que beaucoup parmi les classes moyennes sont concernés par le déclassement social.

google translate.

In recent years, several small films broadcast on the Internet have brought the subject to the public square. We see families living below the poverty line, men who earn no more than $ 50 a month ... No one has precise figures, but the authorities say that 800,000 families benefit from social programs. Knowing that a Saudi family consists of an average of 6 to 8 people and that some beneficiary families have up to 15 members, the total number of poor people can be estimated at more than 6 million out of a total of about 20 million of Saudis. We also note that many of the middle classes are affected by social decommissioning.

33% of the Saudi Arabian people are poor.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

If USA made Venezuelan people rich, who can you explain the percentage of 80% of the population living in poverty?

20 years of communism should have fixed that and made everyone equally poor

You answered your own question here

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Chavez

Look no further than the current long term system, as you said, many times, we don't need most products and can live without cars, smartphones, need far less energy, fancy clothes, playstations, massive LCD TV's, holidays that need air travel and on and on ..... see your lifestyle is one of wanting to be not quite poor but meagre in existence ....... so why bother complaining about living poor Hypocrisy, again


This post was made on an Apple iMac and brought to you by "Asshole Incorporated Australia"

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

thank you for giving us the reason why the US would depose the current government and insert a government who is open to their interests.

Venezuela sells about a third of its oil production to the US, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Venezuela is _starving_. This is in a country with greater oil reserves than Saudi Arabia

There's a monotony to "if a tree falls in the woods, its because the CIA cut it down".

There are plenty of countries which have nationalized their oil companies and run them competently --including Venezuela, long ago.

But the wannabe Fidelistas Chavez and Maduro, have utterly wrecked the nation's economy, and wrecking PDVSA is really an extraordinary own goal. PDVSA was nationalized in 1976, by the way-- but then competently and professionally run until Chavez came to power. PDVSA was so successful that it actually bought a US oil refiner, Citgo. So far from a "yanqui invasion" -- before Chavez, Venezuela was buying up petrochemical infrastructure in the US.

Its staggering that a country which vast oil exports has managed to mismanage their industry so grievously that they've fallen by %50. And no, its not a depletion issue-- Venezuela has more proven reserves than anyone else, by a long shot.

These folks have managed to bungle the straightforward task of pumping oil out of the ground -- or having someone else do it for you-- and cashing the check.

That's pretty astonishing.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

20 years of communism should have fixed that and made everyone equally poor

If Venezuela was ever a communist country I would agree with you.

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Look no further than the current long term system, as you said, many times, we don't need most products and can live without cars, smartphones, need far less energy, fancy clothes, playstations, massive LCD TV's, holidays that need air travel and on and on ..... see your lifestyle is one of wanting to be not quite poor but meagre in existence ....... so why bother complaining about living poor Hypocrisy, again

So you saying that capitalism is the problem here may be right. Remember / 2/3 of Venezuela's economy is in private hands.