Charlottesville, Virginia [Ban The Klan?]

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

I thought it was to defeat Nazis.
(The Swiss weren't liberated, they just carried on liberally laundering stolen money)

I'm sure the people of Eastern Europe felt liberated under Stalin etc.

There were those who wanted to go right after the Reds as soon as Nazi Germany was defeated. Patton, for one. But doing so would have cost a lot of Allied lives. The Soviets had a LOT of stuff, at that point. It would really have been an impractical thing to do. So a deal was struck, and millions of Eastern Europeans were stuck behind the Iron Curtain for decades.

And at that point, people were weary of war, and just glad that the whole horrendous show with Hitler was finally over.

And we still had Japan to deal with, though the writing was on the wall there.

It's interesting to speculate what might have happened if we had got the Bomb a year earlier, and forced Japan to capitulate in the fall of 1944, and shown up at the gates of Berlin with an extra million Allied troops and a few atomic bombs.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

I thought it was to defeat Nazis.
(The Swiss weren't liberated, they just carried on liberally laundering stolen money)

Here are the real facts:


Volcker and Bergier commissions

The Volcker commission audit cost CHF 300 million and gave its final report in December 1999. It determined that the 1999 book value of all dormant accounts possibly belonging to victims of Nazi persecution that were unclaimed, closed by the Nazis, or closed by unknown persons was CHF 95 million. Of this total, CHF 24 million were "probably" related to victims of Nazi persecution. In addition the commission found "no proof of systematic destruction of records of victim accounts, organized discrimination against the accounts of victims of Nazi persecution, or concerted efforts to divert the funds of victims of Nazi persecution to improper purposes." It also "confirmed evidence of questionable and deceitful actions by some individual banks in the handling of accounts of victims". The Volcker commission recommended that for settlement purposes, the book values should be modified back to 1945 values (by adding back fees paid and subtracting interest) and then be multiplied by 10 to reflect average long-term investment rates in Switzerland. Under these rules, a total of $379.4 million was awarded to account holders or their heirs. In cases where the claimant could be verified but the size of the account could not, a $125,000 award was given. The commission recommended that the remaining balance of the settlement should be given to other victims of Nazi persecution. The Bergier Commission reached similar conclusions about the banks' conduct in its final report, and found that trade with Nazi Germany did not significantly prolong World War II.

Originally Posted by vinceprince

I'm sure the people of Eastern Europe felt liberated under Stalin etc.

Don't be so sure. Ask Palo5.

http://vintage-erotica-forum.com/sho...1&postcount=11

Originally Posted by palo5

When Stalin died

I was at home. My father told us. Not on the same day, of course - it could have been a week or two weeks later, but for some reason I never asked. If we had known then what we know today, our emotions may have been different, but at the time, we were sad

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

I thought we fought WW2 to liberate you Europeans from people who would suppress any point of view that wasn't their own.

Even to liberate the Neo-Nazis?

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

It's interesting to speculate what might have happened if we had got the Bomb a year earlier, and forced Japan to capitulate in the fall of 1944, and shown up at the gates of Berlin with an extra million Allied troops and a few atomic bombs.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were deliberated crimes against humanity.

I watched a TV report about this...
Japanese already wanted to capitulate and already approached the US administration. The main problem for the Japaneses was to know how their Emperor could lose this war holding his head "high"... (IMO: What a stupidity. )
US administration didn't need and didn't have to throw two atomics bombs on civilian Japaneses.

Edit: better precisions about Japanese capitulation by tygrkhat40

[bloke57]

It is ironic to me that whatever white "supremacists" do or say, they always prove themselves to be inferior and terrified of their own inadequacies.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by bloke57

It is ironic to me that whatever white "supremacists" do or say, they always prove themselves to be inferior and terrified of their own inadequacies.

So true. When you look at the face of .... white "supremacists". It's laughable.

People covered of Nazi crosses all over their bodies. Afraid by phenotype when their own genotype is probably an incredible mixture since at least their Roman ancesters.

Some of their ancesters probably were deported Jews during the Roman Empire era, one of their female ancesters maybe was raped by a mongol invader, one of their male ancester fell in love with a North African woman, maybe one of their female ancester had a sexual affair with a African gladiator....

They don't get any idea of what happened in the past. Our common history was made by wars, invasions, travels. Our ancesters travelled and mixed themselves a lot.
But these supremacists only look at the color of their "black tattoed" skin in front of the mirror.

.

[cartman]

What a waste of a nice car.

[AmateurEmale]

@bombermouse: You said that "Robert E. Lee was a highly respected and exceptionally talented general... I am a US citizen and as far as I know, this is the only country that has memorials for the key figures in an unsuccessful rebellion. This has always seemed odd to me." Well, as people in the North like to say of the South: "It's like another country down there..."

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by AmateurEmale

@bombermouse: You said that "Robert E. Lee was a highly respected and exceptionally talented general... I am a US citizen and as far as I know, this is the only country that has memorials for the key figures in an unsuccessful rebellion. This has always seemed odd to me." Well, as people in the North like to say of the South: "It's like another country down there..."

In Europe, rarely but sometimes, racists wave the Confederate flag.

[tygrkhat40]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were deliberated crimes against humanity.

I watched a TV report about this...
Japanese already wanted to capitulate and already approached the US administration. The main problem for the Japaneses was to know how their Emperor could lose this war holding his head "high"... (IMO: What a stupidity. )
US administration didn't need and didn't have to throw two atomics bombs on civilian Japaneses.

Some of the Japanese officials wanted to surrender to end the war, they knew what was coming. Others, who knew what was coming, wanted to continue the fight until Japan was destroyed, going out with "honor." It was the Emperor who finally said that the war should end to stop the suffering of his people.

The Japanese never reached out to the US to end the war. They tried to get the Soviets to intercede with the other Allies in negotiating a surrender, but the Soviets kept the Japanese at arms length until they delivered their own declaration of war.

Was it necessary to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Perhaps not. Amateur historian that I am, I maintain that dropping the bombs saved millions of Allied troops and millions of Japanese troops and civilians. And don't kid yourself, if the Japanese had the ability to do to us what was done to them, they would have.

Back on topic, yes, ban the Klan. Plain and simple, the Klan is a domestic terrorist organization. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a similar left-wing radical group as well organized as the Klan was/is.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

The Japanese never reached out to the US to end the war. They tried to get the Soviets to intercede with the other Allies in negotiating a surrender, but the Soviets kept the Japanese at arms length until they delivered their own declaration of war.

Yep. You're right.
I watched this documentary a long time ago... my memory is not always that good. I must have made better researches before to write that Japanese approached the US administration.
I only remembered that they were thinking to give up before to receive those two bombs.

Now, were those two nuclear bombs "reasonable"? ... It's another story.

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

Back on topic, yes, ban the Klan. Plain and simple, the Klan is a domestic terrorist organization. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a similar left-wing radical group as well organized as the Klan was/is.

In Europe we had several terrorist left-wing group like the "Rote Armee Fraktion" or the "Brigate Rosse" that were not considered to be legal. They commited crimes.
The RAF dissolved themselves in 1998.

Does the KKK still commit crimes?