Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

For lawn mowers, it could be the same between people living in a village.
For example: a village of 2000 homes, instead to get 1500 lawn mowers, they could maybe get 200 shared by neighborhood.

Just using the lawn mower as an example , but it could be any product really

What you want to do a is build a factory that needs natural resources to have it built to begin with, then run it .... to make almost nothing

Very very smart idea IMO

And you call Capitalists wasters

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

And you call Capitalists wasters

You can call them worse than that. When western people think of communism, many think of cold war themes: that Stalin may have killed 20m and Mao a lot more. That's awful, and could easily be true

But let me tell something no one else has told you: in 1960 the average life expectancy in India and China was 40. But in China in 1979 it was 69, and the number of excess deaths in India over China in that period is estimated at 4 million per year. Yet China is communist and India is capitalist. Four million a year for 19 years is a chunk of humanity

The fault of capitalism? I think so. When the British were in India, up to 35 million died in preventable famines & massacres, and it's all documented. Admittedly, it happened over 200 years, but it dosn't change the fact that capitalism far exceeds communism in murderous consequences

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by palo5

You can call them worse than that. When western people think of communism, many think of cold war themes: that Stalin may have killed 20m and Mao a lot more. That's awful, and could easily be true

But let me tell something no one else has told you: in 1960 the average life expectancy in India and China was 40. But in China in 1979 it was 69, and the number of excess deaths in India over China in that period is estimated at 4 million per year. Yet China is communist and India is capitalist. Four million a year for 19 years is a chunk of humanity

The fault of capitalism? I think so. When the British were in India, up to 35 million died in preventable famines & massacres, and it's all documented. Admittedly, it happened over 200 years, but it dosn't change the fact that capitalism far exceeds communism in murderous consequences

These deaths can't really be considered in the same context. Colonialism was essentially war and invasion for resources, even if it isn't called that. No one cares if you finish off a bunch of heathen aliens under those circumstances, at least the countrymen of the colonialists won't.

By contrast, Communists killed off their OWN people in droves - worse, they were killing off mostly peasants, the very people their ideology was sworn to succor and protect. It was the ultimate in hypocrisy.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

It was the ultimate in hypocrisy.

No, the ultimate in hypocrisy is doing the same thing, but saying you had a different motive, so that excuses you

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Just using the lawn mower as an example , but it could be any product really

What you want to do a is build a factory that needs natural resources to have it built to begin with, then run it .... to make almost nothing

Very very smart idea IMO

And you call Capitalists wasters

I still use the scythe of my grandfather. link
I'm not perfect, but I do my best.... when you don't.

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by palo5

No, the ultimate in hypocrisy is doing the same thing, but saying you had a different motive, so that excuses you

If one wishes to get all teary-eyed and girly over the moral facets, then there is no excuse for either colonialism or communism.

But one does not slaughter one's own people by the millions and expect them to maintain love for government and country.

The British Empire lasted a lot longer than the Soviet Union did.

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I still use the scythe of my grandfather. link
I'm not perfect, but I do my best.... when you don't.

How can you use a scythe to mow a lawn? You'll have a hard time getting the grass truly short and even.

Practically, a scythe is useful these days for chopping weeds. Not much else. Unless you are playing out some sort of Tolstoy-esque agrarian fantasies in your home-grown wheat field.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

How can you use a scythe to mow a lawn? You'll have a hard time getting the grass truly short and even.

Practically, a scythe is useful these days for chopping weeds. Not much else. Unless you are playing out some sort of Tolstoy-esque agrarian fantasies in your home-grown wheat field.

I also get a manual lawn mower...
But my lawn has almost totally disappeared since 15 years, because I let the local meadow taking the advange. It's better for the biodiversity.
Now I've got a lot of insects in my garden, when my neighbours have dead silent gardens.

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

If one wishes to get all teary-eyed and girly over the moral facets, then there is no excuse for either colonialism or communism.

But one does not slaughter one's own people by the millions and expect them to maintain love for government and country.

The British Empire lasted a lot longer than the Soviet Union did.

You can't compare Colonialism and Communism.

Colonialism = the exploitation of the man by the man.
Communism = an egalitarian society.

Don't you see the difference?
How can you peacefully develop an egalitarian society, when unegalitarian monsters don't want to share their wealth and are ready to commit crimes to maintain their exuberant privileges?

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

These deaths can't really be considered in the same context. Colonialism was essentially war and invasion for resources, even if it isn't called that. No one cares if you finish off a bunch of heathen aliens under those circumstances, at least the countrymen of the colonialists won't.

By contrast, Communists killed off their OWN people in droves - worse, they were killing off mostly peasants, the very people their ideology was sworn to succor and protect. It was the ultimate in hypocrisy.

Do you agree that the original human herd, together with its chief, was truly communal driven by truly one idea? I think so, because otherwise why join into a herd?

When and why, then, it became normal for one part of herd to not only exploit but annihilate fellow humans?
Was it the division of labor? Today we have 7 bln people, each with his own ideas on how to live? Not sure.
Was it personal character differences - greedy leaders vs coward apathic masses? But aren't laws created precisely to curb these differences.

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I also get a manual lawn mower...
But my lawn has almost totally disappeared since 15 years, because I let the local meadow taking the advange. It's better for the biodiversity.
Now I've got a lot of insects in my garden, when my neighbours have dead silent gardens.

I keep my lawn short, because I don't want mosquitos everywhere. Also, if you have a meadow running right up to your house, you are inevitably going to have problems with mice coming in. It encourages them.

Living in Switzerland in presumable alpine type conditions, you can make all these cute moral decisions, but elsewhere, if you don't keep the wild things well away from your domicile, you are asking for trouble.

Manual push mowers are really tiring to use, no wonder your lawn has been shrinking. Get one of the new battery/electric ones. When you get much older, that push mower is likely to give you a heart attack.

Originally Posted by Enrico32

Do you agree that the original human herd, together with its chief, was truly communal driven by truly one idea? I think so, because otherwise why join into a herd?

When and why, then, it became normal for one part of herd to not only exploit but annihilate fellow humans?
Was it the division of labor? Today we have 7 bln people, each with his own ideas on how to live? Not sure.
Was it personal character differences - greedy leaders vs coward apathic masses? But aren't laws created precisely to curb these differences.

No, I don't agree, long before people were even humans, the apemen were separated into tribes, and made war on each other for the places with the tastiest grub.

A million years ago, an apeman was likely to run up to the apeman chief and grunt "Hey, Oog! Strangers eating our mushrooms and nuts over by the waterfall trees!" And Oog would gather the other males and they'd run over there and bash the other intruding apemen with coconuts to chase them away from their precious food supplies.

Nations and colonialism are simply outgrowths of that behavior.

"My King, we have discovered a new tribe called the Zulu in the wilds of Africa! Let's bash them over the head with coconuts and steal their land and gold and diamonds!"

Or something like that.

There were no communist cavemen. Only modern humans have the brainpower to think up such a fantastical fantasy as communism.

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Hey, Oog! Strangers eating our mushrooms and nuts over by the waterfall trees!" And Oog would gather the other males and they'd run over there and bash the other intruding apemen with coconuts to chase them away from their precious food supplies.

But you said that - OUR mushrooms and nuts! I wonder was it a simple byword or do you still admit that the food for apemen was "common" within a tribe? You didn't use that word for the British King and Zulu.

Because in current society, those who 1) make decisions, 2) execute orders, 3) rip profits are entirely different people!! And they constantly highlight their difference. They can, and do, oppress each other. Nothing is common. Then why a society is still there?

Why managers rule firms in the name of absentee owners faithfully instead of just usurping the firms? Military is another matter. Just think of it - the army holds all the weapons...yet exhibits no political voice!! It is fully, totally obedient to a bunch of "community leaders" many of whom cannot even use a handgun. This is beyond comprehending.