The Middle East

BinLadenSucks · July 30th, 2014, 05:05 PM

Israel / Palestine / Hamas

I was kinda surprised I hadn't seen a thread on the current issue. I held off a bit, thinking we had enough on our plate with other issues that we're involved with. But last night I caught a clip of the "Nacy Pelosi - Candy Crowley Interview" and Pelosi seemed so over the top, I decided to make a post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoZdZQpZQE

I had to listen to it as closely as I could. First she claimed that it was only "rumored" that Hamas was using citizens as shields. Second she goes on to emphasizing how much the Qatarians have told her "time and time again" that Hamas was a humanitarian organization.

Personally I believe that we should have more support for our Ally. Ok...I can understand the administration wanting to be fair and support both sides. (Which I don't support.) But did Pelosi go too far in your viewpoint? To me, it sounded like she had more support for Hamas. But she did claim them to be a terrorist organization. Just "what" is she supporting?

Sometimes I think they should keep her in the corner just a bit more.

Did anybody else see the interview differently or add input about the conflict?

garthok newo · July 30th, 2014, 06:41 PM

Israel : a small country, surrounded and out numbered (I think 10 to 1) and let's not forget the "Final Solution"(Germany), Pogroms(Russa), the Munich Olympics(PLO I think) and rampant anti-Semitism thru out the U.S. in our recent past. Now, an organization that declares that Israel should be driven into the sea and is now shooting rockets into their country, a people that was told by their friends to leave their homes because as soon as the state of Israel is declared the surrounding countries will drive the jews out and they (Palestine) will be able to return home.

Every argument for a position has a counter argument going back a few thousand years. Makes my head spin.

But, I wish there were not so many(even one is too many) civilian deaths.

**beemerider500** · July 30th, 2014, 11:27 PM

Well... I am sure that everyone knows this is not the first time this has happened. As I recall, the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. Maybe it's time for a fresh (and possibly a more peaceful) approach.

**deepsepia** · July 31st, 2014, 12:16 AM

Well, what's striking is that Gaza really looks like an extension of what's happening in the neighborhood. Sissi's suppression of the Muslim Brotherhood is very similar, and its remarkable how quiet Egypt has been about the issue.

You've heard the most from Turkey's Erdogan, who was an ally of the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi.

Despite the huge press coverage, Gaza is a small conflict in a region that has lots of much bigger ones. Loss of life, for example -- in the US fighting in Fallujah, there were 800 civilian casualties, and Fallujah (300,000 people) was much smaller than Gaza (1.5 million people). And all of this is tiny next to Syria, with an estimate 150,000 dead.

So its tragic, but the media, public and diplomatic response to Israel-Gaza is out of any proportion to its significance. ISIS/Syria/Libya/Egypt-MB are all much more significant conflicts.

**Nobody1** · July 31st, 2014, 12:27 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93hqlmrZKd8#t

**SanteeFats** · July 31st, 2014, 12:56 AM

I don't know what happened and I am not trying to take anything from Bin but I started a thread a week or so ago titled Israel/Arabs I guess it was the wrong title. Anyway if you go back to 1948 when Israel was established by UN mandate and the Palestinians were displaced this was an inevitable scenario. Putting that aside (hard to do) the Israelis seem to have been the more moral nation. Hamas has repeatedly broken agreed upon cease fires, treaties, etc. Hamas continues to rain rockets down on Israel with out regard to where yet they also hide their weapons among the civilian populace and bitch when Israel retaliates and civilians are killed and injured. Don't forget the suicide bomber idiots. Again putting aside the UN mandate I see a hell of a lot more wrong on the Arab side. Yes there are Israeli extremists but they do seem to be a bit more restrained and less prone to slaughter just because.

benboe · July 31st, 2014, 06:32 AM

All my 55 years I have watched conflict after Israeli conflict but this one is different.
The media coverage is intense.
The effect of this is the world sees Palestinian children wounded, dying and dead.
When a news report shows a young man searching rubble for his family shot, not once but 3 times. It was deliberate murder of a civilian.
So what is the effect of this?
Well, where I supported Israel in its plight to survive in a hostile region, I am now thinking if the Muslims obliterate Israel from the face of the planet I wouldn't be bothered.
Israel may be winning the ground war but have lost the battle for hearts and minds.
I do wonder on the hypocrisy of sanctions against Russia but no call for sanctions against Israel.
I makes you wonder just how much power the Jewish community holds in this world.

**Puhbear69** · July 31st, 2014, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

I don't know what happened and I am not trying to take anything from Bin but I started a thread a week or so ago titled Israel/Arabs I guess it was the wrong title. Anyway if you go back to 1948 when Israel was established by UN mandate and the Palestinians were displaced this was an inevitable scenario. Putting that aside (hard to do) the Israelis seem to have been the more moral nation. Hamas has repeatedly broken agreed upon cease fires, treaties, etc. Hamas continues to rain rockets down on Israel with out regard to where yet they also hide their weapons among the civilian populace and bitch when Israel retaliates and civilians are killed and injured. Don't forget the suicide bomber idiots. Again putting aside the UN mandate I see a hell of a lot more wrong on the Arab side. Yes there are Israeli extremists but they do seem to be a bit more restrained and less prone to slaughter just because.

I wrote in an other thread, the British might have an other view, if you mention the establishing of that state:

Quote:

I think a couple of years ago the British thought the same.

Instead of "Hamas" they had been called "Lechi (Lehi)" or "Etzel (Irgun)" or "Haganah".

The difference of a terrorist or a freedom fighter is sometimes extremely small, just only by success or non success. .

The discussion there was of a "civilized" country (= Israel).

Just read the "justifications" of that groups.

You see a lot more wrong on the Arab side, because the side has nearly "no voice" at your place. What not means: all is fine at the Arab side, it is damn not fine.

deefer · July 31st, 2014, 08:58 AM

You could divide both sides send one to the arctic , the other to the antarctic and 2 years latter the palestinions would still be blaming the jews and blowing up penguins and the jews would have built igloo universities and set up schools and synogues. This is about education and beliefs, the jews are educated and believe in education which makes politico's and leaders jobs ever harder. The palestineans believe in the koran first and everything else a long third or forth which makes it easy for bad men to lead them. NOTHING will change until the palestinions realise they can't beat israel through force. end of story.

sico20090 · July 31st, 2014, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deefer

You could divide both sides send one to the arctic , the other to the antarctic and 2 years latter the palestinions would still be blaming the jews and blowing up penguins and the jews would have built igloo universities and set up schools and synogues. This is about education and beliefs, the jews are educated and believe in education which makes politico's and leaders jobs ever harder. The palestineans believe in the koran first and everything else a long third or forth which makes it easy for bad men to lead them. NOTHING will change until the palestinions realise they can't beat israel through force. end of story.

hey wtf you talking about man you got it completely wrong
the Palestinian ppl are dieing every day more and more by israel
and its not a game or story this is Peoples and innocent childrens life are
keep on dieing every and every day again by the force israel keep using
And the rockets they keep using who are destroying their homes and schools every day

July 30th, 2014, 05:05 PM	#1
BinLadenSucks Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 282 Thanks: 4,487 Thanked 2,018 Times in 279 Posts	The Middle East Israel / Palestine / Hamas I was kinda surprised I hadn't seen a thread on the current issue. I held off a bit, thinking we had enough on our plate with other issues that we're involved with. But last night I caught a clip of the "Nacy Pelosi - Candy Crowley Interview" and Pelosi seemed so over the top, I decided to make a post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoZdZQpZQE I had to listen to it as closely as I could. First she claimed that it was only "rumored" that Hamas was using citizens as shields. Second she goes on to emphasizing how much the Qatarians have told her "time and time again" that Hamas was a humanitarian organization. Personally I believe that we should have more support for our Ally. Ok...I can understand the administration wanting to be fair and support both sides. (Which I don't support.) But did Pelosi go too far in your viewpoint? To me, it sounded like she had more support for Hamas. But she did claim them to be a terrorist organization. Just "what" is she supporting? Sometimes I think they should keep her in the corner just a bit more. Did anybody else see the interview differently or add input about the conflict? Last edited by Estreeter; August 11th, 2014 at 02:27 PM.. Reason: Thread Merger

July 30th, 2014, 06:41 PM	#2
garthok newo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 297 Thanks: 92,470 Thanked 3,812 Times in 276 Posts	between a rock and a hard place Israel : a small country, surrounded and out numbered (I think 10 to 1) and let's not forget the "Final Solution"(Germany), Pogroms(Russa), the Munich Olympics(PLO I think) and rampant anti-Semitism thru out the U.S. in our recent past. Now, an organization that declares that Israel should be driven into the sea and is now shooting rockets into their country, a people that was told by their friends to leave their homes because as soon as the state of Israel is declared the surrounding countries will drive the jews out and they (Palestine) will be able to return home. Every argument for a position has a counter argument going back a few thousand years. Makes my head spin. But, I wish there were not so many(even one is too many) civilian deaths.

July 31st, 2014, 12:27 AM	#5
Nobody1 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,119 Thanks: 16,786 Thanked 22,140 Times in 2,127 Posts	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93hqlmrZKd8#t Last edited by Nobody1; July 31st, 2014 at 06:03 AM..

July 31st, 2014, 08:58 AM	#9
deefer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 146 Thanks: 552 Thanked 2,323 Times in 134 Posts	israel palestine You could divide both sides send one to the arctic , the other to the antarctic and 2 years latter the palestinions would still be blaming the jews and blowing up penguins and the jews would have built igloo universities and set up schools and synogues. This is about education and beliefs, the jews are educated and believe in education which makes politico's and leaders jobs ever harder. The palestineans believe in the koran first and everything else a long third or forth which makes it easy for bad men to lead them. NOTHING will change until the palestinions realise they can't beat israel through force. end of story.

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July 30th, 2014, 11:27 PM	#3
beemerider500 Vintage Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,123 Thanks: 35,856 Thanked 9,424 Times in 1,040 Posts	Well... I am sure that everyone knows this is not the first time this has happened. As I recall, the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. Maybe it's time for a fresh (and possibly a more peaceful) approach.

July 31st, 2014, 12:16 AM	#4
deepsepia Moderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Upper left corner Posts: 7,205 Thanks: 47,953 Thanked 83,435 Times in 7,199 Posts	Well, what's striking is that Gaza really looks like an extension of what's happening in the neighborhood. Sissi's suppression of the Muslim Brotherhood is very similar, and its remarkable how quiet Egypt has been about the issue. You've heard the most from Turkey's Erdogan, who was an ally of the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi. Despite the huge press coverage, Gaza is a small conflict in a region that has lots of much bigger ones. Loss of life, for example -- in the US fighting in Fallujah, there were 800 civilian casualties, and Fallujah (300,000 people) was much smaller than Gaza (1.5 million people). And all of this is tiny next to Syria, with an estimate 150,000 dead. So its tragic, but the media, public and diplomatic response to Israel-Gaza is out of any proportion to its significance. ISIS/Syria/Libya/Egypt-MB are all much more significant conflicts.

July 31st, 2014, 12:56 AM	#6
SanteeFats Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 60,811 Thanks: 281,799 Thanked 813,736 Times in 60,857 Posts	I don't know what happened and I am not trying to take anything from Bin but I started a thread a week or so ago titled Israel/Arabs I guess it was the wrong title. Anyway if you go back to 1948 when Israel was established by UN mandate and the Palestinians were displaced this was an inevitable scenario. Putting that aside (hard to do) the Israelis seem to have been the more moral nation. Hamas has repeatedly broken agreed upon cease fires, treaties, etc. Hamas continues to rain rockets down on Israel with out regard to where yet they also hide their weapons among the civilian populace and bitch when Israel retaliates and civilians are killed and injured. Don't forget the suicide bomber idiots. Again putting aside the UN mandate I see a hell of a lot more wrong on the Arab side. Yes there are Israeli extremists but they do seem to be a bit more restrained and less prone to slaughter just because.

July 31st, 2014, 06:32 AM	#7
benboe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 142 Thanks: 608 Thanked 1,167 Times in 140 Posts	All my 55 years I have watched conflict after Israeli conflict but this one is different. The media coverage is intense. The effect of this is the world sees Palestinian children wounded, dying and dead. When a news report shows a young man searching rubble for his family shot, not once but 3 times. It was deliberate murder of a civilian. So what is the effect of this? Well, where I supported Israel in its plight to survive in a hostile region, I am now thinking if the Muslims obliterate Israel from the face of the planet I wouldn't be bothered. Israel may be winning the ground war but have lost the battle for hearts and minds. I do wonder on the hypocrisy of sanctions against Russia but no call for sanctions against Israel. I makes you wonder just how much power the Jewish community holds in this world.