Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Marxists quite like slavery too, they just prefer to call it labour camps, the Gulags were a prime example

http://gulaghistory.org/nps/onlineexhibit/stalin/

In fact you will never read one line of Gulag in Marx's theories. But as you wrote, you don't want to read them... so... that's a little bit difficult to discuss with an obtuse man.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

In fact you will never read one line of Gulag in Marx's theories. But as you wrote, you don't want to read them... so... that's a little bit difficult to discuss with an obtuse man.

Everything Marxists accuse the West of they are more than happy to do themselves when they get in power.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men"
That's just as true of Marxist leaders.

I simply don't want to read Marxism as it is irrelevant to me.
You can call it obtuse if you want, but quite frankly there are far more interesting things to read.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

You can call it obtuse if you want, but quite frankly there are far more interesting things to read.

Like : "How to produce a new cheap smartphone for the supermarket ?"

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Like : "How to produce a new cheap smartphone for the supermarket ?"

Er no, you are an obscure little sausage aren't you. What twisted corner of your mind did you drag that ridiculous comment from

Like ..... thousands of books on the supernatural, ancient history especially the crusades and the Templars, comic book history, horror anthologies, books on 70's & 80's TV and many more subjects.
They may be a tad obtuse to you Marxist fanatics though as they are mainly read for entertainment

[Brecht]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Everything Marxists accuse the West of they are more than happy to do themselves when they get in power.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men"
That's just as true of Marxist leaders.

I simply don't want to read Marxism as it is irrelevant to me.
You can call it obtuse if you want, but quite frankly there are far more interesting things to read.

Yet you seem to be an expert on Marxism. Having an opinion is one thing but having the knowledge another. So if you claim that you've never read anything by Marx or a Marxist author but you have an opinion of their theories, doesn't that make your opinion kind of... irrelevant?

I fail to see a discussion based on superficial familiarity with the topic at least. If you disagree with the ideas of Marxism, you'll have to understand at least some of its basic principles, otherwise I don't know what it is you're disagreeing with and, even worse, you don't even now what you're disagreeing with.

Same goes for criticism of Capitalism. No one's going to understand it by alluding to its moral corruption, let alone overthrow it. Much reading and studying is required to understand such complex topics like economy, politics, history, philosophy, science etc.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by Brecht

Yet you seem to be an expert on Marxism. Having an opinion is one thing but having the knowledge another. So if you claim that you've never read anything by Marx or a Marxist author but you have an opinion of their theories, doesn't that make your opinion kind of... irrelevant?

I would never class myself as an expert on Marxist theories, they do not interest me in the slightest but portraying Marxism as a panacea to the worlds problems is unrealistic and I'm not really bothered what people think of my views, so yes to many they will be irrelevant.
Our opinions are formed as we grow older and over the years I have seen the collapse of the European Marxist states. There has never been a successful Marxist state as they all decay once those who get to lead realise how much they like power.

From today's news as a great example.
China's Xi allowed to remain 'president for life' as term limits removed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-43361276

"The vote was widely regarded as a rubber-stamping exercise. Two delegates voted against the change and three abstained, out of 2,964 votes."

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

From today's news as a great example.
China's Xi allowed to remain 'president for life' as term limits removed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-43361276

"The vote was widely regarded as a rubber-stamping exercise. Two delegates voted against the change and three abstained, out of 2,964 votes."

They will be sadly missed by friends and family..

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

I would never class myself as an expert on Marxist theories, they do not interest me in the slightest but portraying Marxism as a panacea to the worlds problems is unrealistic and I'm not really bothered what people think of my views, so yes to many they will be irrelevant.
Our opinions are formed as we grow older and over the years I have seen the collapse of the European Marxist states. There has never been a successful Marxist state as they all decay once those who get to lead realise how much they like power.

Your "Marxist states" were not Marxist.

Karl Marx died before to finish his work.
That's why still today there are Marxist AND Liberal economists who are studying his works.

Marx never wrote: "A state must have this kind of laws and this kind of government."

He wrote:
Children don't have to work.
Children must get a free education.
Private properties don't have to be transfered by inheritance. (He had nothing against a little house and a little land for the family).
No masters, no slaves.
etc...

He observed that the problem of capitalism was to never pay the workers for the real job they do.
Or the money always reinjected in the economy to make more profits, more commodities would destroy the environment. (That's what is happening today, you don't need to be a Marxist to observe that. Even capitalist biologists observe this terrible fact)

You can have money. If you don't reinject it again and again in the economy to receive dividends or to get more money or commodities, you are not a capitalist.
If you earn your money and use it to eat and get a flat in which you sleep, cook and live with your family, you are not a capitalist.

You can be a simple worker and a capitalist, if you become a shareholder.
You can have saved 1 million pound after working on a oil plateform. If you let them in a safe and you spend them to live, you are not a capitalist.

Capitalism put workers in slavery. That's not because you don't feel to be a slave, that there are not other workers who are not slaves of the capitalism.
Remember the story about the African children working and even sometimes dying in coltan mine in Republic Congo contributing to build cheap smartphones.
If these children would earn 100 GBP per day, how cheap would be the smartphone in UK, America or Central Europe?

That's that capitalism.
Would you send your son or your daughter in coltan mines in RDC?
Leaders and shareholders of Iphone, Blackberry, Nokia, etc... know the work conditions of these children. But they don't care. They only care about benefits.
That's that... capitalism.

[Wendigo]

Marx was a theoretical thinker not a doer in any way shape or form.

The fact remains his theories have never, and will never, be put into practice as Marxist idealists may like.
Marx spent too much time thinking and maybe forgot the important human element. As soon as someone is put in charge of anything they change, it is human nature and always has been.

It may be cynical but it is true.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Marx was a theoretical thinker not a doer in any way shape or form.

The fact remains his theories have never, and will never, be put into practice as Marxist idealists may like.
Marx spent too much time thinking and maybe forgot the important human element. As soon as someone is put in charge of anything they change, it is human nature and always has been.

It may be cynical but it is true.

Marx was a singularly impractical man, which is why his children were raised in abject poverty and only three of the seven lived to adulthood. Unfortunately for his wife and children, the wealth that came to Marx with the royalties from Das Kapital proved unhelpful to the two surviving daughters who inherited his estate. Both chose their male partners poorly and committed suicide. Jenny Marx had died 15 months before Karl.