August 10th, 2017, 12:43 AM | #21 | |
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August 10th, 2017, 12:41 PM | #22 | |
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I've been a bit reluctant to chime in on this thread as I have said my piece on another similar thread in this forum. However, to address the points made (above) I feel I must contribute.. Most of what you state is probably true. I would bet that any court in the land would look at the point made about fire extinguishers being out of date and, without proof, dismiss that as hearsay... It may well be true - I don't know - but it could just as easily be rumour that has circulated in the aftermath of the fire. If it is true, and the residents were aware of the "fact" why didn't they raise the point before the incident? Why has this just surfaced now? As regards your other points (one stairwell, gas main up the stairwell, no sprinklers and no fire escape) there is surely no legal case to answer.. The fault lies with building regulations that allowed this building to be constructed and/or subsequently modified with those "faults" incorporated in the construction. Perhaps, in the intervening years, the regulations have changed (and if not they certainly will have to) but put to it simply, you can't be prosecuted for constructing a building under building legislation that is subsequently found to be flawed.. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Perhaps the London Fire Brigade will now spend money on hydraulic platforms to reach higher. They had to borrow a 45m Bronto Skylift machine from Surrey F&RS on the night of the incident - hence the delay in the arrival of that machine.. Nothing in the LFB fleet will reach that height, despite the preponderance of tall buildings in the capital. It could be argued that had such a machine been more readily available and arrived on scene quicker, more people may have been rescued or the fire knocked back earlier. By the time the Bronto arrived the fire had run up the face of the building out of reach of jets. In fairness, no platform is made to reach to the height actually required but you see my point? Had the building had a sprinkler system and no cladding this would have been a one-flat fire and probably wouldn't have made the news outside of the local area. Sprinklers to knock it back and a couple of jets working from the internal dry riser and the job would have been done in ten minutes.. As I say - hindsight... I see the forthcoming enquiry as nothing more than a box-ticking exercise that will conclude that "lessons must be learned etc., etc.". No-one will be prosecuted as no one person is ultimately to "blame". The disaster is a product of many failures coming together in one place. The government have appointed a legal person to oversee the inquiry and he is now collecting evidence but I believe his conclusions could now be written without waiting years for them to be made public. |
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August 11th, 2017, 10:32 PM | #23 |
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The chap who will get problems is the one whose fridge caught fire. Apparently he packed up all his belongings away before reporting it. Because of the hype he will probably get away "scot" free. (not sure of his nationality but no offence against Scots.) If the council get a huge fine it will have to be paid back to them in extra grants anyway!
The solution is to have an investigation by experts along the lines of the MIAB or AAIB rather than wasting money by getting lawyers involved. Ex-residents should be made to give factual evidence directly to any enquiry rather than run the risk of a lawyer trying to twist it against some person or legal entity. The history of the fire needs to be looked at from start to finish with a view to prevent a re-occurrence. The Hillsborough business demonstrates the problem with these situations. The investigation seems to be looking at whether the police made the right decision in dealing with a surge of late arriving fans rather than going for the root of the problem. Why were so many late? Why did the FA not have a plan to deal with it? I know technology is better now but there must have been some indication that the ground was not filling up as quickly as expected. My conclusion is that UK needs an Investigation Branch to look into such matters as a matter of course without all the delays that an inquiry including non-experts involves; not to mention the costs! |
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August 12th, 2017, 09:52 AM | #24 | |
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Word went round that he was either an illegal immigrant or not the registered tenant of the flat. No final confirmation can (or will ever be) given on the final death toll due to some of the flats been sub-let by the registered tenants. What you write, regarding the need for a specific agency to look at these sort of incidents, is sound thinking. Providing the agency could be wholly independent, it would certainly help remove the interference that too many lawyers bring to such inquiries. |
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August 12th, 2017, 10:06 AM | #25 |
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A lot of people may never be found,Their remains may no longer exist,The heat and flames would have come up that one stairwell like a blowtorch.
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August 12th, 2017, 02:10 PM | #26 | |
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The folks tasked with the job of sifting through the debris on the upper floors, open to the elements, looking for fragments of anything that could help identify victims deserve our respect. As for the heat in the place, I recall attending an incident, must be twenty five years ago now... Three story terraced house, well alight from ground floor. Persons reported. Three kids reported in upper floor back bedroom. Two BA crews (four firefighters) went in through front door in full breathing apparatus. Heat was so intense in the ground floor hallway that despite having a water spray cover over their heads and crawling on their bellies, the plastic "debris covers" that were over their BA cylinders melted onto the back of their fire gear coats. They took some punishment that evening but still couldn't get further in than the bottom of the staircase before pulling out. Heat was so intense that wooden stair rails and door frames were spontaneously combusting as soon as fresh air entered the building. No survivors from those trapped. |
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August 12th, 2017, 05:28 PM | #27 | |||||
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August 12th, 2017, 06:01 PM | #28 | |
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I agree totally with your point regarding the safety of the structure before the cladding was added. There is no doubt whatsoever that the cladding, whilst not being the cause of the fire, was the reason it spread so far so quickly. As regards he wiring, I think the difficulty is going to be proving that the fridge caught fire because of faulty building wiring. I do know that in the immediate aftermath of the fire, Hotpoint recalled selected models of their fridge-freezers citing a fire risk problem. (I had to check the model number of my own appliance to make sure it was not one of those affected. In fairness though, I don't know whether the fridge involved in the fire at Grenfell was one of those models subsequently recalled). Even if the root cause is proven to be electrical, it is going to be very difficult to ascertain whether it was the fridge or the internal wiring. |
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October 16th, 2017, 08:58 AM | #29 | ||
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I rode my motorcycle west along the A4 Westway recenty from the A5 Edgeware Road to the Shepherds Bush / White City exit. There is a long stretch lasting at least two minutes where the ruins of the Grenfell Tower are 12 o clock in front of you as you go along.
I crossed myself. It makes me angry even now whenever I think of it. But of course the Kensington and Chelsea Housing Management Organisation are on the ball. http://www.kctmo.org.uk/news/343/fir...t-28-july-2017 Quote:
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February 14th, 2018, 09:23 PM | #30 |
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