Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

How strong was the witch hunt in the USA against Communism when you were a teenager?

This all happened in the early & mid 1950s. I was blissfully unaware, not reaching my teens until 1963. What a wonderful time. The Beatles, Stones and Beach Boys led the charge in saving radio from clueless record company executives.

Originally Posted by AmateurEmale

@Brian249x: So what you are saying is that government ownership of the means of production (i.e. "state capitalism" or government monopoly / nationalized industries) is bad, but that true communism would involve self-employment in a way that does not contradict

Please, I am not an expert on Marxist theory. Tony influenced me in that direction, but the obvious viciousness and stupidity of the regimes of the PRC and USSR turned me off years ago.

I recently read a biography of Marx, his wife, and children. Marx was a dreamer and a very impractical man, whose decisions kept his family living in extreme poverty for most of his life. Ironically, the royalties from Das Kapital lifted them into the middle class. Jenny's wealthy family and Frederick Engles kept them from starving in earlier years.

IMO, Marx hit upon some truths in his analysis of capitalism and social relations. I distrust his prescribed corrections and prophecies. I also believe that we have a long way to go in understanding economics, social relations, and constructing truly practical and efficient political systems. The older I grow and the more I learn, the less I believe in many opinions that were previously strongly held. It is my experience that our understanding is more often hindered by our mistaken beliefs than by our ignorance.

Let me say this: as much as we have grown skeptical of 19th century political thought (Marx & J.S. Mill) and are ignoring 20th century thinkers (John Dewey and George Santayana, for example), many would have us uncritically accept 18th century thinkers (Jefferson, Madison, Locke, Montesquieu.) We don't do this in mathematics, science, or medicine. So, how can that be best practice in law and government?

[Roubignol]

@AntiCommunistsFriends.

So how would you fight poverty and inequal treatment between people?
That's impossible with the Capitalism. Isn't it?

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

@AntiCommunistsFriends.

So how would you fight poverty and inequal treatment between people?
That's impossible with the Capitalism. Isn't it?

In fairness, capitalism has proven to be more equitable than feudalism or the slavery of the ancient world. It does appear that we are actively seeking and improved system of economic and social relations.

[Nobody1]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

In fairness, capitalism has proven to be more equitable than feudalism or the slavery of the ancient world. It does appear that we are actively seeking and improved system of economic and social relations.

You mean democracy, not capitalism.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

In fairness, capitalism has proven to be more equitable than feudalism or the slavery of the ancient world. It does appear that we are actively seeking and improved system of economic and social relations.

2008 financial crisis demonstrates that capitalism is a form of slavery.

Originally Posted by Nobody1

You mean democracy, not capitalism.

In fact I would add... revolutions, strikes, civil disobediance, civil protests and in real democratic countries: popular referendum.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

2008 financial crisis demonstrates that capitalism is a form of slavery.

I don't see how that follows. The financial crisis is simply part of the business cycle. Asset prices go up and they go down too.

How is that "slavery"?

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

You mean democracy, not capitalism.

Are you forgetting that Athens had a democratic government? The majority of Athenians were slaves and could not vote. Women, too, were excluded from voting or holding office. Furthermore, a large percentage of the Athenian population was foreign born. They were also excluded from voting and government. Pre-Augustan Rome was a republic. In fact the institutions of the Republic continued under the emperors and the elections for various offices continued to be held.

Capitalist enterprises existed in slave holding and feudal societies. Part of Marx's genius lay in recognizing that what we call capitalism is in fact a set of social relationships and customs.

[Nobody1]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

Are you forgetting that Athens had a democratic government? The majority of Athenians were slaves and could not vote. Women, too, were excluded from voting or holding office. Furthermore, a large percentage of the Athenian population was foreign born. They were also excluded from voting and government. Pre-Augustan Rome was a republic. In fact the institutions of the Republic continued under the emperors and the elections for various offices continued to be held.

Capitalist enterprises existed in slave holding and feudal societies. Part of Marx's genius lay in recognizing that what we call capitalism is in fact a set of social relationships and customs.

If you want to see unbridled capitalism in action, take a good look at Sudan, Gambia and Eritrea.

[slaphead12]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

Are you forgetting that Athens had a democratic government? The majority of Athenians were slaves and could not vote. Women, too, were excluded from voting or holding office..

If women (50% of the population) can't vote its not a democracy.

USA only (possibly) became a democracy in the 60's with civil rights laws, although the Electoral College is problematic when considering democacry .

UK is not a democracy as the Sovereign has to sign laws before they come into effect. Also House of Lords is a giveaway.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by slaphead12

If women (50% of the population) can't vote its not a democracy.

USA only (possibly) became a democracy in the 60's with civil rights laws, although the Electoral College is problematic when considering democacry .

UK is not a democracy as the Sovereign has to sign laws before they come into effect. Also House of Lords is a giveaway.

The USA has never been a democracy. It is a republic. As far as I know Switzerland is the lone instance of democracy besides "primitive" tribal villages.

I have a sneaking suspicion that almost all forms of government were instituted by robber bands on conquered agricultural settlements.