The new "tolerant" extreme left

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by BondJmsBond

Thank you Brecht, SanteeFats and Mal Hombre.

I agree some of savage's comments are racist and have no place here. I've hoped and asked him to tone it down. Ban him if you must, but he is no Nazi and does not deserve virtual beheading; that's just as reactionary as he.

Also maybe this thread should be closed, but I hope we can continue with reasonable exchange of ideas without rancor and personal attack from either 'side'.

We're really on the same side, we love our culture and place and want the best for it; we just have some different views, and that's ok.

It's not right for us to comment on mod actions openly, especially when a member has no way of defending themselves.

True a certain post saying those of non European decent are inferior did get the member on major trouble I have to expand on that.

He was PM'd countless times over that past few years, and that's just by me, don't know how many by other mods. He was given a short ban from here once for 10 day last year or year before and still didn't learn.

By in larger most of my politics lean to the right, but when it comes to racial comments I draw the line.

The threads not dead, and won't be removed,
There is always a way of saying something without being abusive, racist or the like, if anyone can't find a way of making it neither of them, then don't post it.

Just for the record, I'm no big fan of mass immigration but know immigration needed, my own government is strict on it and I don't think it's strict enough and we have a right wing government, but there is no way I'd discriminate against a race, religion or nation as a criteria for it, not now, not ever.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by brk549

If your banning or blocking because you don't like what someone thinks then close the thread.What good is it if your only going to allow one side.Those of us on the right have been called all sorts of things.For the love of Pete grow up,your not supposed to all believe the exact same thing.That's what discussion is.

If I repeat day and night that I'm sure your mother is a ****. And you have to moderate the topic, would you ban me or not?

When someone repeat day and night that people of other colors are humans of a lower standard and as moderator you strongly believe that's not true and that's not the way that we will improve the global solidary between humans, do you think that you have to tell this guy to shut up or not?

Forum is like a bar. Someone who loudly shout bullshits and insults in the corner of the bar during one night... ok, why not. Even if... in a lot of bars he will be kick out after at maximum 15 minutes. But if the manager of the bar doesn't make his job, we can try to discuss with the potential rioter. But every night? Sorry but as customer I don't come back in this bar or I request to the boss to kick him out.

Here you have people who believe that depending your color or your religion, you are systematically a better guy or a suspicious guy. Sorry but first that's not the reality and then that's basic hate. Isn't it?

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by brk549

Those of us on the right have been called all sorts of things

True, but those on the left also have been called all sorts of things.

Seems to be a 2 way street.

In a bad neighbourhood

[brk549]

I'm in the dark.Was he banned for good or blocked or what?It' like cicci said,it's a tough world.I usually won't be offended by anyone on a forum like this because I don't know anyone on this forum but if he was kicked because he offended someone do you not think he was offended by saying he was posting lies.He was posting his opinion and backing it up with links that I didn't take the time to click.I maybe don't agree with everything he said but I agree with a lot of it and I think he and I have had words in the past but if you don't want an opinion don't ask for it and I would be this way about it if it had been someone I totally disagree with.If you go down this road you'll eventually end up with powder puffs only that can't stand to hear an opinion that differs from theirs and then what do you do when they start offending each other.

[Mal Hombre]

Did You read Estreeter's post above ? Savage was banned for Racism and persistent Attitude problems,I wouldn't describe Estreeter as a "Creampuff"..

[BondJmsBond]

If savage has been banned permanently I will miss him. He's very intelligent and tells the truth as he sees it, Respect for that. The things he has said have made me think really hard about why certain things are taking place in our world, especially concerning mass 'immigration' and the evident intent to bury native population under them.
I don't see the usual "I got myself banned" etc. in his user tittle so I hope it's a temp ban.

I will continue to take the position that Islam is not a real religion and is poison to human life on this Earth.

[Brecht]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

The article does not explain anything. Absolutely zero, zilch, nada.

Well, to be honest, I did not expect a real explanation from a bourgeois gazette like the Guardian. These guys are more than challenged when it comes to the topic of Marxism. This is simply in the nature of things, I guess.

To illustrate the actual problem a bit more clearly. The defining feature of Marxism is still the indissociable class conflict, and the resulting class struggle, which can only be solved in the revolutionary renewal of contradictory realities. Marxist materialism is always dialectical. Always and exclusively. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Everything else is not Marxism. The foundations of Marx's dialectical materialism can be found within the Hegelian dialectic.

The so called long march through bourgeois institutions has absolutely zilch to do with Marxism. That's just the idiotic idiocy of idiots.

So the question remains. What is 'Cultural Marxism'?

Wait, are you trying to suggest the average right-winger should actually study philosophy, science and economics? Oh, good luck with that, my friend. Hegelian what?

So, what's Cultural Marxism? It's a particularly stupid oxymoron, mainly used by the far-right in the English-speaking world. But its origins go back to the Nazi propaganda term Kulturbolschewismus (Cultural Bolshevism). Back then Cultural Bolshevism was used to claim that German culture was being undermined by Jews who want to brainwash the good, racially pure German Christian and take control of his country. Today it's everyone who thinks that civil and human rights are important achievements and that they're worth fighting for.

Using insubstantial snarl words like Cultural Marxism is a sign of political illiteracy and ignorance. It shows that its user is not interested in an exchange of arguments or throroughly argued refutation of his opponent's views but merely in slander and a vulgarian distortion of whatever the other side claims. So this is how someone like Mr. Savage560 works: he has a set of pre-prepared opinions (mainly copy&pasted from various far-right sources). If an opponent (everyone he deems a left-winger or Marxist) posts something that doesn't quite match the parameters of his pre-prepared opinion, he's going to twist your words, so it does fit. Basically it's like talking to an answering machine.

This is also the function of propaganda buzzwords like Cultural Marxism.

We're not going to close this thread, even though it would make sense to do so. This thread was not started with the intention of a healthy debate but as someone's own political talk show with the sole purpose of bashing leftists and everyone else who disagrees with his views and methods. The reasons for his banning have already been explained. It's not his right-wing views but his attitude and racist remarks.

I consider myself a Marxist and never made a secret of that. Most people here are obviously not even aware of the absurdity of calling someone like Obama a Marxist or socialist. I mean this is fucking insane. If you're a Marxist, you believe in the revolutionary abolition of classes. You believe that capitalism has long overstepped its usefulness for the development of the productive forces and that it's time to replace it with an economic system that serves humanity and that's under democratic control. How the hell does Obama fit here? Karl Marx was an avid student of classical Greek philosophy, of the great minds of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment era. Thinkers like Epicurus, Francis Bacon, Denis Diderot, Voltaire, Adam Smith, David Ricardo, G.W. Hegel, Lewis H. Morgan, Charles Darwin, Ludwig Feuerbach, Charles Fourier or Saint-Simon were his personal heroes. He was their greatest admirer and critic at the same time. Even when he disagreed with some aspects of their philosophy, he expressed his respect and admiration.

Whatever happened to that kind of respect in today's debates? Now we're not exactly great thinkers here but we're intelligent enough to show some human decency. So please, try to do that in the future. You want to talk about mass immigration? Great! Me, too. It's not necessarily a great thing. Not every Marxist thinks we should let the whole world in. We're not hippies who base their opinions on intuition and feel-good mantras. Mass immigration has deep impacts on the economy, the labor market, the housing market etc. Let's talk about it but with arguments and eloquence.

And don't think that it was me who banned savage560. It doesn't work like that. There's no caprice among our ranks. We have rules and regulations and every drastic step like the banning of a member has to be discussed by the staff. Banning is only the last means of dealing with a problematic member. It's only after all attempts to warn him have failed that the issue of potential banning is brought up. Of course, I was in favor of banning him but only after the most recent racist remarks he made. And if a left-winger (or "left-winger") resorts to the same methods of hostility, slander and disrespect toward others, you can bet your ass that I'm going to do something about it, even if I agree with (some of) his/her views.

[BondJmsBond]

Yes, Cultural Marxism is an invented buzz phrase devoid of meaning. Just like regular words used in a political context so they are meaningless or actually mean the opposite of their definition:

drain the swamp
progressive
social justice
tolerance
acceptance
inclusiveness
diversity
cultural enrichment
equality
compassion
love
breaking news
just in
racist
white privilege... on and on.

[Brecht]

There are many idiots on the left as well who use similar methods to silence people. I'm aware of that and dealt with such people in the past. For instance, since when is criticism of religion, in this case Islam, racist? If you are a socialist in the actual sense and if you claim to defend the values of progress, secularism, emantipation or women's rights, how can you have a positive opinion of Islam? I can't and I don't. Islam is a cult from the Early Middle Ages. It's a product of its time and cannot be modernized or reformed, otherwise it won't be Islam. It's a reactionary cult that can only be tolerated as long as it's confined in mosques and its followers' own homes just like Christianity was banned from the public arena with the separation of church and state. But Muslims are concrete people who can think reasonably and who can change their views and beliefs like everyone else.

Wide sections of the left have been infected with the plague of identity politics. They ignore the basic leftist question, the social question. Many of them, usually college kids with a middle class background, think that questions of race and sexuality are separate issues that shouldn't be asked in the context of the wide social and economic reality. I get upset myself when I see those college feminists who are basically liberals who have only little in common with working class people who think it's more important to be able to feed your family than public toilets for transgender people.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by Brecht

I'm aware of that and dealt with such people in the past. For instance, since when is criticism of religion, in this case Islam, racist?

Well, knowing how bigots like to code their messages in order to veil their actual intent. It is very easy for people to mistake actual criticism for a racist attack.

Originally Posted by Brecht

Wide sections of the left have been infected with the plague of identity politics. They ignore the basic leftist question, the social question. Many of them, usually college kids with a middle class background, think that questions of race and sexuality are separate issues that shouldn't be asked in the context of the wide social and economic reality. I get upset myself when I see those college feminists who are basically liberals who have only little in common with working class people who think it's more important to be able to feed your family than public toilets for transgender people.

Yeah this divide loomed large in the last election.