The First World War

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Ennath

Wilson was, in the end, the first of the great American Progressives, who sought to remake America into a land governed by "experts" such as himself. He maintained that the Constitution had been a big mistake. He was, ultimately, the beginning of the gloomy road to Barack Obama.

Well that would be Glen Beck's theory. I'd note that the 20th century treated the US quite well, all things considered its not such a "gloomy road".

The US emerged from the First World War vastly more prosperous and stronger than it entered it -- alone among the combatants.

The US' strategy of isolation from Europe's conflicts, with a very small standing army, would have been disastrous if pursued into the 20th century; Wilson went out and did very hard political work, to convince a reluctant American public to fight on the side of the British (not so popular in the US at the time).

[knobby109]

Originally Posted by Ennath

Wilson was, in the end, the first of the great American Progressives, who sought to remake America into a land governed by "experts" such as himself. He maintained that the Constitution had been a big mistake. He was, ultimately, the beginning of the gloomy road to Barack Obama.

What's wrong with progress?

[blueballsdc]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

The US' strategy of isolation from Europe's conflicts, with a very small standing army, would have been disastrous if pursued into the 20th century; Wilson went out and did very hard political work, to convince a reluctant American public to fight on the side of the British (not so popular in the US at the time).

There were many groups in the US that did not want us to get involved in a war in Europe. This included large numbers of Irish-Americans and German-Americans. Many thought this was a strictly internal European affair and didn't want the US to interfere. Also many throughout the Southern US that wree opposed to the war. Memories of the American Civil War were still strong and support for the Spanish-American War had not been strong in the South.

If it hadn't been for the sinking of the Lusitania, the resumption of war against all merchant shipping, and the Zimmerman Telegram we would never have entered the war.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by blueballsdc

...If it hadn't been for the sinking of the Lusitania, the resumption of war against all merchant shipping, and the Zimmerman Telegram we would never have entered the war.

There is a small typo, comrade - you mean "if it hadn't been for US banks like JP Morgan etc losing their money, we would never have entered the war"

That's it, basically. Without America, England and France would have lost

And the world would have been a better place if they had lost and America had stayed out, because then there would have been no reason for Hitler and no WW2 etc etc

[blueballsdc]

Originally Posted by palo5

There is a small typo, comrade - you mean "if it hadn't been for US banks like JP Morgan etc losing their money, we would never have entered the war"

You've been following the party line a bit too long comrade. You attribute too much power to our beneficent capitalists.

Originally Posted by palo5

That's it, basically. Without America, England and France would have lost

I'm glad you said it and not me. There you have it people. If it hadn't been for the USA you would all be speaking German now.

Originally Posted by palo5

And the world would have been a better place if they had lost, because then there would have been no reason for Hitler and no WW2 etc etc

J.F.C. Fuller is his The Conduct of War argues that if it wasn't for democracy the world would be a better place and Hitler would have never come into power.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by blueballsdc

I'm glad you said it and not me. There you have it people. If it hadn't been for the USA you would all be speaking German now.

Hahaha!

I didn't say they'd be speaking German - I just said they would have lost the war

[deepsepia]

What's forgotten is that the US was much more German, both Jewish and Gentile, in 1914 than it is today. I have ancestors from Wisconsin, born German speaking. JP Morgan alleged that Jewish firms like Lehman Brothers were allied with Germany (a charge that was mostly true).

World War one caused a purging of German language from the US, including food names-- in a risible foreshadowing of "Freedom Fries", sauerkraut became "liberty cabbage", frankfurters became hot dogs, and so on.

The question of just why the US tilted towards the Allies is not easily answered; seen at the time the "outrage" that brought us into the war was German u boat warfare, and that opens the complicated question of the status of neutral shipping in war, a minefield (so to speak).

[palo5]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

... sauerkraut became "liberty cabbage"... and so on.

Taxes my ancient brain. But it it is so good that I am sending it to Pravda because they should remember it

[blueballsdc]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

What's forgotten is that the US was much more German, both Jewish and Gentile, in 1914 than it is today. I have ancestors from Wisconsin, born German speaking. JP Morgan alleged that Jewish firms like Lehman Brothers were allied with Germany (a charge that was mostly true).

World War one caused a purging of German language from the US, including food names-- in a risible foreshadowing of "Freedom Fries", sauerkraut became "liberty cabbage", frankfurters became hot dogs, and so on.

The question of just why the US tilted towards the Allies is not easily answered; seen at the time the "outrage" that brought us into the war was German u boat warfare, and that opens the complicated question of the status of neutral shipping in war, a minefield (so to speak).

Indeed, the USA was much more German. There were many communities throughout the Eastern Seabord, the Midwest, the plain states, and the Northwest that were very German. Lots of Scandinavians throughout the northern part of the US too and they also opposed the war in Europe.

[LuvDeb'stits]

Ennath,

Bravo on that! Because of progressives like Wilson and the subsequent presidents like him, we are suffering under the most liberal, socialist president in our history.