Beatles - Page 34

**Ace** · August 31st, 2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Um . . . his lyrics are atrocious. What's worse than the lousy lyrics -- every songwriter has some howlers-- is the sense that you get that what he's saying is "lyrics don't matter at all, we can talk gibberish, and it's just the same".

All rock/pop lyrics are atrocious.
Rock 'n' roll is particularly vulgar; therefore McCartney was a great rock lyricist.
He was smart enough to leave a lot of space in between.
Less is better in rock

**victor meldrew** · August 31st, 2011, 12:55 PM

Were the Beatles about lyrics, probably not. Gave a generation of Brits something of our own to relate to, rather than the American crooner filled pop charts. Whilst not forgeting Gerry and the Pacemakers reached number one first, then along came a host of brit pop acts, quite a few, strangely enough, along the same lines as the Fab Four.

**rockernut** · August 31st, 2011, 01:56 PM

I've been truly touched by some of their lyrics;"She's Leaving Home" and " Eleanor Rigby", for example.

"All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?

Father McKenzie writing the words of a sermon that no one will hear
No one comes near.
Look at him working, darning his socks in the night when there's nobody there
What does he care?

All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?

Ah, look at all the lonely people
Ah, look at all the lonely people

Eleanor Rigby died in the church and was buried along with her name
Nobody came
Father McKenzie wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave
No one was saved "

**billybunter** · August 31st, 2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace Bailey

All rock/pop lyrics are atrocious.
Rock 'n' roll is particularly vulgar

You must listen to some good rock music.

**tygrkhat40** · August 31st, 2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Um . . . his lyrics are atrocious.

And yet, "Yesterday" is the most recorded song in history.

**deepsepia** · August 31st, 2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

And yet, "Yesterday" is the most recorded song in history.

. . .and it says more or less nothing. "I believe in yesterday" -- really? "Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be" -- well that is a very tangled web of tenses, isnt it? It's like "the long and winding road" they're lyrics that kinda look like they're saying something, and then when you read it, you realize it's kinda like Abba lyrics, stuff thats been assembled out a "book of English cliches" by Swedes.

The thing about McCartney is that lyrics don't matter at all to him. He's the most melody driven person I can think of -- Dylan said that about him, even when you hear him speak, his voice has a little sing-song to it. He writes very pretty songs, and very much like another guy with a similar gift, Elton John, he'd have done much better with a lyricist.

Rock does have great lyrics, and it has just "good" lyrics. Great lyrics- Art Alexakis (Everclear). Bob Dylan -- voice of a generation. Lou Reed, some amazing work. Most folks have very little idea what "walk on the wild side" is about -- it was a biographical picture of a subculture folks don't know. Amy Winehouse -- some very sharp and memorable lyrics

As I say, lyrics are important because a hit song is the greatest exposure a poem ever has, it's the only "popular poetry". And as a song ages, insipid lyrics make the song less memorable, less important. One way to think of it is this: which rock lyrics work their way into the public consciousness as a way of expressing an idea? For the Beatles, almost zero-- you'll never hear someone quote "Sergeant Pepper" in the way that they might David Byrne "sound of gunfire, off in the distance, I'm getting used to it now"; "you may ask yourself: my God, how did I get here?" . And Mick Jagger writes stuff about human desire and atavism -- Beatles' songs are oddly asexual, there's nothing with a hint of "I want to fuck", which is, after all, a big part of what you listen to music for. And theres no "I want to fight" either, which Mick also covered.

On the human emotion side, I predict a much more robust future for John's song "How do you sleep?" than "I am the walrus", and "Double Fantasy" will remain in memory for "Beautiful Boy" as a father's goodbye to his son, the much quoted line "life is what happens while you're making other plans" dwarfs any Beatles' lyric.

As songs age, the lyrics stand out. Think of the world war two songs. There were lots of truly stupid songs that were popular at the time, but which, meaning nothing, are just period pieces "mairzy dotes" (phonetic) comes to mind. But evryone immediately knows "we'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when".

**Historian** · August 31st, 2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Sometimes hearing a Beatles' song, you get the impression that these were "placeholder" lyrics, stuff there just to have something to mumble along the songline, until someone got the real lyrics written.

Funnily enough, I've read more than once that both Lennon and McCartney sometimes employed exactly this tactic in songwriting- attaching a few lines of nonsense to a melody until they'd worked out where they really wanted it to go lyrically.

The story goes that during the early stages of it's gestation, the first line of Yesterday was briefly 'Scrambled Eggs, Oh my darling you've got lovely legs....'

**TCO95** · August 31st, 2011, 08:37 PM

We need to remember we are looking back over 40 years to most of these songs. What is acceptable now would get you jailed in the 50's - 60's. So we need to look at their body of work in the context of their times. Rock and roll was barely 10 years old when they hit the scene. Bands came and went in short order and the players moved on to "grown up" jobs. Music in all genres was entertainment. A way to shake off the daily grind. Rock and roll was the bastard child of entertainment. Serious musicians played jazz and or classical.

Although I agree that some of their work is lyrically unsophisticated when they matured and the times changed so did the songs. The album that most impresses me is "Rubber Soul". With the whole world waiting for the next "Help" or "Hold Your Hand" they delivered a sitar on "Norwegian Wood", the introspective "In My Life" and the rhythmic "The Word". I think, more than anything else they are simply a victim of their own success. When you are that good and that successful some people have to find fault its something that happens in all walks of life.

**tygrkhat40** · August 31st, 2011, 08:50 PM

I don't think i would use the word "atrocious" to describe McCartney's lyrics. I think "commercial" is a better word to use. I think Macca has mostly written lyrics with an idea of writing a hit song. And there's nothing wrong with that. Song with a message have always had a market and occasionally they "crossover" and become hits. But the majority of hit songs over the past 80+ years have been light, pop and mostly forgettable songs.

Remember, Paul once wrote "Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs. And what's wrong with that?" And I will agree with you deepsepia that for lyrics with more depth, I'm not gonna look to Sir Paul. I'll got to Lennon, Dylan, Jim Morrison (and Robbie Krieger), Pete Townshend, the Glimmer Twins, Lou Reed, Sting, Tom Petty and others.

Oh, and Elton John did do it with a lyricist, Bernie Taupin. When Sir Elton went into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame he said he wouldn't be there without Bernie. And c'mon, do you really think Elton wrote "a couple of the sounds that I really like are the sounds of a switchblade and a motorbike."

**deepsepia** · August 31st, 2011, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

I don't think i would use the word "atrocious" to describe McCartney's lyrics. I think "commercial" is a better word to use. I think Macca has mostly written lyrics with an idea of writing a hit song.

They're atrocious, even when he really does have a message: "Ebony and Ivory" comes to mind. He's trying to say something profound, and its just cloying and awful. Really, you have Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney, and it should be great piece of work

Quote:

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

Oh, and Elton John did do it with a lyricist, Bernie Taupin. When Sir Elton went into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame he said he wouldn't be there without Bernie. And c'mon, do you really think Elton wrote "a couple of the sounds that I really like are the sounds of a switchblade and a motorbike."

Precisely, that was my point. Elton John has some memorable songs because he recognized early on that he couldn't write a good lyric, even about things that were important to him. He's got some songs that genuinely "connect" -- because Bernie wrote him great lyrics for "Candle in the Wind", "Circle", "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" and "Love lies bleeding"

Its often the case that the lyric seems less important at the time, but makes the song last.

In British pop music, we've got the example of Gilbert & Sullivan. If Gilbert hadn't written clever, funny lyrics that folks love to sing -- who'd remember the music of Arthur Sullivan?

Oh, and my nomination of a guy whose lyrics will make his songs increase in importance: Elvis Costello. They're so sharp and clever, folks are going to be listening and reworking them for another century.

The Beatles are going to be more like John Galsworthy -- very popular once, but in a hundred years, no one will be quite sure "why?"

August 31st, 2011, 08:50 PM	#339
tygrkhat40 Long Suffering Bills Fan Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The City of Good Neighbors Posts: 9,669 Thanks: 304,243 Thanked 152,629 Times in 9,629 Posts	I don't think i would use the word "atrocious" to describe McCartney's lyrics. I think "commercial" is a better word to use. I think Macca has mostly written lyrics with an idea of writing a hit song. And there's nothing wrong with that. Song with a message have always had a market and occasionally they "crossover" and become hits. But the majority of hit songs over the past 80+ years have been light, pop and mostly forgettable songs. Remember, Paul once wrote "Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs. And what's wrong with that?" And I will agree with you deepsepia that for lyrics with more depth, I'm not gonna look to Sir Paul. I'll got to Lennon, Dylan, Jim Morrison (and Robbie Krieger), Pete Townshend, the Glimmer Twins, Lou Reed, Sting, Tom Petty and others. Oh, and Elton John did do it with a lyricist, Bernie Taupin. When Sir Elton went into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame he said he wouldn't be there without Bernie. And c'mon, do you really think Elton wrote "a couple of the sounds that I really like are the sounds of a switchblade and a motorbike." __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

August 31st, 2011, 12:55 PM	#332
victor meldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: At the bottom of an empty glass Posts: 15,778 Thanks: 531,920 Thanked 180,036 Times in 15,766 Posts	Were the Beatles about lyrics, probably not. Gave a generation of Brits something of our own to relate to, rather than the American crooner filled pop charts. Whilst not forgeting Gerry and the Pacemakers reached number one first, then along came a host of brit pop acts, quite a few, strangely enough, along the same lines as the Fab Four.

August 31st, 2011, 01:56 PM	#333
rockernut Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 6,958 Thanks: 69,665 Thanked 73,321 Times in 6,969 Posts	I've been truly touched by some of their lyrics;"She's Leaving Home" and " Eleanor Rigby", for example. "All the lonely people Where do they all come from? All the lonely people Where do they all belong? Father McKenzie writing the words of a sermon that no one will hear No one comes near. Look at him working, darning his socks in the night when there's nobody there What does he care? All the lonely people Where do they all come from? All the lonely people Where do they all belong? Ah, look at all the lonely people Ah, look at all the lonely people Eleanor Rigby died in the church and was buried along with her name Nobody came Father McKenzie wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave No one was saved "

August 31st, 2011, 08:37 PM	#338
TCO95 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: This member is not allowed in your country. Posts: 5,176 Thanks: 47,615 Thanked 64,804 Times in 5,130 Posts	We need to remember we are looking back over 40 years to most of these songs. What is acceptable now would get you jailed in the 50's - 60's. So we need to look at their body of work in the context of their times. Rock and roll was barely 10 years old when they hit the scene. Bands came and went in short order and the players moved on to "grown up" jobs. Music in all genres was entertainment. A way to shake off the daily grind. Rock and roll was the bastard child of entertainment. Serious musicians played jazz and or classical. Although I agree that some of their work is lyrically unsophisticated when they matured and the times changed so did the songs. The album that most impresses me is "Rubber Soul". With the whole world waiting for the next "Help" or "Hold Your Hand" they delivered a sitar on "Norwegian Wood", the introspective "In My Life" and the rhythmic "The Word". I think, more than anything else they are simply a victim of their own success. When you are that good and that successful some people have to find fault its something that happens in all walks of life.