Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[haroldeye]

Verhofstadt a nasty little man with much to be little about. That clip and several others that went with it are was an eye opener. Never saw it reported in the UK press. The cold disgust shown by the Polish presenter to Verhofstadt and his hateful little speech was amazing.

Sadly the way the EU works allows arseholes like him an opportunity to become far more important than his intellect and abilities would normally allow.

[chupachups]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Sadly the way the EU works allows arseholes like him an opportunity to become far more important than his intellect and abilities would normally allow.

no disagreement from me regarding him being an arsehole and how arseholes seek power in the EU institutions

but lets not make a mistake over his intellect and abilities...I have seen him debating farage...he is quite eloquent, if not a bit windy and rude, and of course he is arguing from an untenanable EU position

As I mentioned before, verhofstadt has a lot to gain from the EU, belgium = 11M people...he can now lord it over 550M people. This is why the EU appeals to the political elite. That and the ability to swill at the much bigger EU trough with impunity. Why wouldn't the political elite heavily vote remain, after their westminster career, with the EU they don't have to disappear into obscurity, they can extend their political career into brussels...see kinnock, mandelson, ashton, b-liar etc

they are using us as the foot soldiers to win influence in brussels and throw their weight around the world...not for the good of the people, but for their own nefarious aims...

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Verhofstadt a nasty little man with much to be little about. That clip and several others that went with it are was an eye opener. Never saw it reported in the UK press. The cold disgust shown by the Polish presenter to Verhofstadt and his hateful little speech was amazing.

Sadly the way the EU works allows arseholes like him an opportunity to become far more important than his intellect and abilities would normally allow.

Yep I'm more and more careful with these pro-capitalist leftists.
But working since 10 years with a Polish colleague, who is very proud of his country and escaped Communism (we have huge friendly debates about capitalism together ) and who often presents to me polish friends still living in Poland, they ALL are strongly ashamed by the actual Polish governement that is more and more authoritarian and populist.

It doesn't smell good right now in Poland.
When people walk under a flag, in my point of view that's always suspicious.
You observed that I often speak about Switzerland and France, but I'm not patriot at all (my French ancesters had Scottish and Welsh ancesters), because there are good and bad things in all countries. But the notion of nation is today outdated. It's the way to divide to better rule.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Yep I'm more and more careful with these pro-capitalist leftists.

But working since 10 years with a Polish colleague, who is very proud of his country and escaped Communism (we have huge friendly debates about capitalism together ) and who often presents to me polish friends still living in Poland, they ALL are strongly ashamed by the actual Polish governement that is more and more authoritarian and populist.

It doesn't smell good right now in Poland.
When people walk under a flag, in my point of view that's always suspicious.
You observed that I often speak about Switzerland and France, but I'm not patriot at all (my French ancesters had Scottish and Welsh ancesters), because there are good and bad things in all countries. But the notion of nation is today outdated. It's the way to divide to better rule.

He's a Belgium -pro-capitalist- liberal, not a -leftist. Better to say a "neo-liberal" nowadays. There's a difference to the old fashioned liberals.
(We are d'accord with those pro-capitalist lefties who are camouflaged neo-liberals at least. Like it was Blair in the UK and Schroeder in Germany. But that's an other topic.)

Nevertheless his critics at Poland is quite applicable and definitely needed.
What's going on in that popolist government and in parts on the streets isn't compatible with the frame of mind in Europe, IMHO.

I'm far away of generalization that all of the Polish are like those but I believe to that Poland should been send to the penalty box for a while.

With walking under flags and the singing of the National Anthem (I better know an alternative text-version ) I'm having the same problem than you have.

[chupachups]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

With walking under flags and the singing of the National Anthem (I better know a different text-version ) I'm having the same problem than you have.

In some ways I have sympathy with your comment, but in other ways no

Do you know that in the USA, they sing the national anthem (the star spangled banner) at every opportunity, and people are expected to stand and show their support and patriotism ? American school children are taught the US constitution...and "I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"

To show patriotism isn't a sin...to usurp the will of the people and turn a democracy into a fascist state and expect the people to worship that fascist state is the problem...don't confuse the two


England doesn't have a national anthem...it was proposed to adopt "jerusalem", but that never happened

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propos...em_for_England

But if jerusalem had been adopted, I would be happy to sing it in the albert hall at the last night of the proms, with lots of flag waving

See my point ? Its not the patriotism and flag waving, its the arseholes on the left (communists) and right (fascists) that hijack it for their own ends

But the EU doesn't see it this way, because they want to abolish the concept of the nation state, hence EU funding projects in the british regions using british tax money to buy the will of the sheeple...and it seems to work with the dim witted and naive..."the EU gave us that"

[haroldeye]

Puh, Verhofstadt obviously doesn't know the difference between Patriotism (Love of one's country) and Nationalism (corrupting patriotism in order to provide support for other extreme political systems).

The Polish National day march was a wonderful spectacle with old and young having a pleasant day celebrating the independance of their nation from the yoke of two oppressors. For Verhofstadt to liken that march to the Nazis was neither polite nor accurate and demonstrated just what a cock he is.

I loathe Nationalism with a will. Be it the BNP, the EDL or any other group who want to subvert a genuine love of where you come from into hatred for others. Sadly the very actions of the EU are giving the Nationalist scum fuel for their horrid little minds. The Poles have a problem with the far right but so do most other countries in the EU and the Commission has got to look at itself and ask why should their great project be causing so much offensive reactions.

[chupachups]

Originally Posted by chupachups

to usurp the will of the people and turn a democracy into a fascist state and expect the people to worship that fascist state is the problem...don't confuse the two
...
EU funding projects in the british regions using british tax money to buy the will of the sheeple...and it seems to work with the dim witted and naive..."the EU gave us that"

Actually this was the turning point for me and the EU, prior to this I assumed the EU was benign and didn't really care, but after I did a bit of research, the parallels with history were quite worrying for me

The parallels I am referring to are soviet russia and nazi germany, where the state forged/forced a closer tie between its individual citizens and the state, breaking even family loyalties...children denouncing parents is the chilling vision of the past and of the EU future

In the context of EU brainwashing, I have many times made reference to the puppies in george orwell's animal farm...the orphaned puppies were brainwashed into absolute loyalty and defending the pigs against all the other animals...precisely the loyalty inducing tactics that the EU employs with its regional funding programmes targetting the millennials

Its amazing how the naive millennials have fallen for this in huge numbers...sheeple...

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by chupachups

In some ways I have sympathy with your comment, but in other ways no

Do you know that in the USA, they sing the national anthem (the star spangled banner) at every opportunity, and people are expected to stand and show their support and patriotism ? American school children are taught the US constitution...and "I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"

To show patriotism isn't a sin...
[....]

What -for me- is relevant of any national flags is also relevant for hammer and sickle flags -not at all to mention any kind of swastika flags - as well.
Got me ?

I'm having a lot of trouble -or being busy- of being a person/human, that I'm having absolute no time left of being a patriot as well. I'm Sorry !

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Puh, Verhofstadt obviously doesn't know the difference between Patriotism (Love of one's country) and Nationalism (corrupting patriotism in order to provide support for other extreme political systems).

The Polish National day march was a wonderful spectacle with old and young having a pleasant day celebrating the independance of their nation from the yoke of two oppressors. For Verhofstadt to liken that march to the Nazis was neither polite nor accurate and demonstrated just what a cock he is.

I loathe Nationalism with a will. Be it the BNP, the EDL or any other group who want to subvert a genuine love of where you come from into hatred for others. Sadly the very actions of the EU are giving the Nationalist scum fuel for their horrid little minds. The Poles have a problem with the far right but so do most other countries in the EU and the Commission has got to look at itself and ask why should their great project be causing so much offensive reactions.

I've a kind of the same problem that Verhofstadt is having, but I understand your objection.

That's because I think - neutral expressed - that the borderline of Patriotism and Nationalism are floating. Patriots are often slip away into Nationalism - therefore I don't want to have anything to do with it & them.

And therefore I said in my last post you mentioned:"I believe to that Poland should been send to the penalty box for a while." because the right wing seems to be in the government in Poland (and Hungary).

Same here with the AfD in our Bundestag, since they are there, they seemed to have eaten "chalk". But watch out, there are some "bad journeyman" among them.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

What -for me- is relevant of any national flags is also relevant for hammer and sickle flags -not at all to mention any kind of swastika flags - as well.
Got me ?

I'm having a lot of trouble -or being busy- of being a person/human, that I'm having absolute no time left of being a patriot as well. I'm Sorry !

Yeah and it begins with patriotism, then regionalism, then localism... endless divisions that give the opportunity to unfair elites (priests, politicians, monarchs, etc...) to divide people instead to unite them.

Look at the name of the party of the Polish president (Right and Justice)