Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[gordian_knot]

Originally Posted by ********

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7527961.html

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theres...17-1?r=UK&IR=T

https://www.ft.com/content/3501446a-...c-f253db7791c6

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...britain-brexit

These are not plans, they are a pre-negotiation threat in order to concentrate minds. The Tories (at least May's bunch) want a deal and I'm beginning to think we'll end up with a fairly soft Brexit unless the EU push us into a position which would be political suicide to accept.

Nothing being said now should be taken at face value, on either side.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Let me know when it happens.

We will only hear superficialities, and most may not be true. But sooner or later we will get the big whistleblowers. I'd like to see the anonymous criminals shut down for good

[Brecht]

Originally Posted by ********

They are threats.

The EU is being entirely reasonable and fair. No punishment, just the agreed (we signed up to Article 50) terms and conditions and trying to make the best of it.

No talk of punishment. No dodgy negotiating tactics - the EU agreed and published its position in April. Nothing to hide, totally up front.

The only one being difficult is May, and having unrealistic expectations can only make things worse.

It's important to understand how the EU sees Brexit. It's not the biggest EU issue right now. Go and read some German newspapers with Google translate. They are more worried about Trump and more interesting in what Merkel and Macron can do to reform and improve things.

I follow Austrian and German media every day and it's true that Brexit and Britain are barely a topic. It seems like many people in Britain, Brexiteers in particular, believe there's another Battle of Britain just waiting to happen. For the last couple of days, the main foreign topic was Trump and his gigantic arms deal with the Saudi terrorists.

As for Merkel and Macron, you're wrong if you expect them to reform or improve anything. Macron's victory is bad news for the EU and Merkel and Schäuble won't step away from their current policy of risking the EU's future for the sake of the German export surplus.

Unlike the British or the German, the French have a long history of fighting for basic labor rights and living standards of the many. What Merkel wants is that France implements the same policy of wage dumping like Germany did. That's where its export surplus comes from. Macron was Merkel's candidate and he only got elected because people in France wanted to prevent Le Pen from embarassing their country. But it's precisely people like Macron and Merkel who are responsible for the recent rise of the far right all over Europe.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by Brecht

Unlike the British or the German, the French have a long history of fighting for basic labor rights and living standards of the many.

That's quite a sweeping assertion - I can't comment on German labour history [there was no "Germany" per se before 1870] but in the case of Britain one immediately thinks of Wat Tyler and the English Peasants Revolt as far back as the Middle Ages; the Tolpuddle Martyrs and the Chartist movement come also to mind.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by Brecht

Unlike the British or the German, the French have a long history of fighting for basic labor rights and living standards of the many.

From here it looks more like the French have a long history of fighting to work as few hours as possible for as much money as possible and to retire as early as possible.
Vive la difference

[haroldeye]

The EU is being entirely reasonable and fair. No punishment, just the agreed (we signed up to Article 50) terms and conditions and trying to make the best of it.

No talk of punishment. No dodgy negotiating tactics - the EU agreed and published its position in April. Nothing to hide, totally up front.

So Junker saying that we must punish the Brits for Brexit was just a slip of the tongue.

'"Regarding the consequences of a Brexit, I have said that a deserter would not be welcomed with open arms. That is the stance of the commission as well as the attitude of other governments. And of course, it would have implications for voting patterns in other countries which are going in a direction that we do not wish for." (Interview with Der Spiegel, 1 June).

Or perhaps Francois Hollande, France's least popular leader since Petain,

"The UK wants to leave and pay nothing. It's not possible. There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price. Otherwise we will be in a negotiation that cannot end well." (Speaking at Paris Delors Institute, 6 Oct)

[Brecht]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

That's quite a sweeping assertion - I can't comment on German labour history [there was no "Germany" per se before 1870] but in the case of Britain one immediately thinks of Wat Tyler and the English Peasants Revolt as far back as the Middle Ages; the Tolpuddle Martyrs and the Chartist movement come also to mind.

Yes and the English Civil War is also an early class struggle. Whatever happened to that revolutionary spirit? But I was referring to the 20th century because there was no class consciousness in the Middle Ages, at least not among peasants. I should have been more concrete in my previous post.

Peasants' revolts happened all over Europe in the 15th and 16th century. The most famous on German territory happened in 1524/25. It was led by Thomas Müntzer.

Britain has a long tradition of organized labor, of course. It was the home of the Industrial Revolution and the first to give birth to the modern proletariat. Other European countries were catching up in the 19th century, Germany included. The beginning of the modern German labor movement goes back to the 1830s.

[haroldeye]

There must be a threat - Sounds like this is a threat to me .

[seany65]

Just wodnering: What is this £50-£100 billion that Juncker et al wanst from Britain supposed to be for?

I know we owe our yearly 'membership fee'/upfront trade tariff for each year that we are members of the EU.

But don't those payments end the actual day we leave?

[gordian_knot]

Junker wants us to keep paying up until the next spending round in 2020, a year after we should have left. He also wants us to keep paying for EU officials' pensions. The actual figure is totally arbitrary and the higher figure of €100b is as inflated as they can make it and ignores any assets that we own.

Our position is that we should stop paying once we've left, which seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Any deal will include a compromise figure. If we can't get a compromise, then there'll be no deal and we won't be paying anything.

More details here https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...u-divorce-bill.