Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[Devius]

Originally Posted by chris chunt

He even looks like Jeremy Corbyns does Spike Milligan .

But the what are we going to do now that the wot are we going to do now chant applies to all .

Even the victors who have went quiet .
Come on Boris and Gove ???
How are you dealing with your victory ?

Funny you should mention Boris...

Boris Johnson says UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with EU following referendum result

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037

[Nobody1]

Very interesting thing. There is no need for a formal letter. According to some EU apparatchiks, an Brexit can already be triggered by verbal statement.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7103991.html

Btw, the UK has practically no leverage in exit negotiations. Threats against German goods on the UK market are very unlikely since goods are slightly different than financial services. Goods are protected against punitive tariffs by appropriate WTO agreements.

Unfortunately, on an industrial scale, the UK is more a consumer, less a producer. There is simply no negotiation power in the interest of the UK. The reason is very simple. The British economy is after years of neoliberal ideology hardly anything other than a financial sector with its related businesses and institutions. Decades of deindustrialization have left their mark. These are the worst possible conditions. I may be wrong, but I think you have a bad hand.

Stay strong.

[scoundrel]

There is a certain mordent pleasure in seeing politicians with their trousers in an uproar because they have put themselves into a difficult position. While it actually is quite true that David Cameron had a public and professional duty to make plans for the eventuality of a possible vote to leave the EU (I find "Brexit" a bit tacky as a shorthand for a very serious thing), that doesn't serve as much excuse for the likes of Farage [a total fuckwit IMHO] and Boris Johnson. If they elected to spearhead a political revolt against the EU they needed to have plans for an alternative future. If in fact they do not, then that should be a career-ending mistake for them as individuals, just as calling this referendum has been a career-ending mistake for Mr Cameron. No one can take seriously a sailor who cannot navigate, a leader with no idea of where he is going.

Nevertheless, the decision is set and it is necessary to implement it. There is a lot to discuss and at the very least our government has to start meeting all the various EU ambassadors on Monday to see about convening a summit with the heads of government and agreeing a timetable and plan for organising the separation. The actual process of separation need not be rushed, as there is an awful lot to negotiate and agree; for example about the fishing rights of the EU members in British waters, which is going to be a potential flashpoint if we do not engage constructively. We must be patient and even tempered, because some of our EU counterparts are going to be bitter and angry and revengeful, and will need a chance to cool off and consider their own best interests. We have to accept that and will be wise to turn the other cheek when faced with mere hot-headed words, retaliating against actions only, simply to show we will not be bullied, but will likewise do nothing gratuitous to harm anyone else.

The six heads of government have a valid position IMHO. It is nonsense to tell them they have to wait until October. No formal process can begin until the shape of the next administration is known; Mr Cameron has acted selfishly in leaving at this juncture so that others will inherit his mess, and his selfishness will lose us weeks before the new administration is formed. But even in those lost weeks the depratment ministers can be working to agree a timetable and a plan with the EU ministers and minimising the confusion which is going to arise.

Farage and Johnson, if they really have/had no formal plans for how to manage the divorce, should play no part whatsoever in the process, because there is no usefulness in them. People who talk bollocks are not valuable.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

Very interesting thing. There is no need for a formal letter. According to some EU apparatchiks, an Brexit can already be triggered by verbal statement.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7103991.html

Btw, the UK has practically no leverage in exit negotiations. Threats against German goods on the UK market are very unlikely since goods are slightly different than financial services. Goods are protected against punitive tariffs by appropriate WTO agreements.

Unfortunately, on an industrial scale, the UK is more a consumer, less a producer. There is simply no negotiation power in the interest of the UK. The reason is very simple. The British economy is after years of neoliberal ideology hardly anything other than a financial sector with its related businesses and institutions. Decades of deindustrialization have left their mark. These are the worst possible conditions. I may be wrong, but I think you have a bad hand.

Stay strong.

Lets see, eh?

There is a General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) which extends to the service sector the same multilateral trading rules which apply to the trade in goods under the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT). Both are treaties under the World Trade Organisation. So the exchange of services is governed by treaty on a very similar basis to the exchange of goods and in both cases protectionism or punitive tariffs will fall foul of the WTO.

We might, of course, try engaging with each other constructively, and seeking a sensible accomodation. Who knows where that could lead, Britain and the EU governments having a meaningful negotiation.

[Brecht]

Boris Johnson, the man of principle:

"Johnson drove to his Oxfordshire bolthole [in February] to make up his mind. He was due to deliver his well-rewarded column for the Daily Telegraph. He wrote two articles – one putting the case for the status quo, the other for Brexit. I was told by someone who saw both drafts that the case for staying in was the more powerful and persuasive.

"When I put this to Johnson on the campaign trail, he huffed and puffed. 'I don’t know your source, but it is true that I did write two articles,' he said. 'And the second one said that, irrespective of my objections to the way that the EU was going, in order to support my party and the prime minister it would be better to stay in. And I thought in the end that wasn’t a good enough reason'.”


Full article

[seany65]

Furhter to my post mentioning that I'd started a petition to stop the '2nd referendum' petition being considered by HM Govt, I've got a link to it here, for any britds who would like to sign it. Not being a legal boffin, I'm not sure if the wording is as good as it could be, so if any 'Leaver' brits have any suggestions I'll look at them and see if I can chnage the wording.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/143167/sponsors/HaAdyD2VwPksAwMjJW5

[rotobott]

Originally Posted by seany65

Furhter to my post mentioning that I'd started a petition to stop the '2nd referendum' petition being considered by HM Govt, I've got a link to it here, for any britds who would like to sign it. Not being a legal boffin, I'm not sure if the wording is as good as it could be, so if any 'Leaver' brits have any suggestions I'll look at them and see if I can chnage the wording.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/143167/sponsors/HaAdyD2VwPksAwMjJW5

Hell I hope it's better than this post

[seany65]

Originally Posted by seany65

Furhter to my post mentioning that I'd started a petition to stop the '2nd referendum' petition being considered by HM Govt, I've got a link to it here, for any britds who would like to sign it. Not being a legal boffin, I'm not sure if the wording is as good as it could be, so if any 'Leaver' brits have any suggestions I'll look at them and see if I can chnage the wording.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/143167/sponsors/HaAdyD2VwPksAwMjJW5

Posted by rotobott:

"Hell I hope it's better than this post "

Ah, yes, I was wondering when someone would spot them. Well done.

I won't list the deliberate mistakes 'cos I want to see if anyone else notices them as well.

Edit: Decided to remove the deliberate mistake from this post, as I think the ones in my previous post are enough for people to be going on with.

[Roger Allott]

My preferred outcome was always that I'd like the EU's bureaucrats to wake up and conduct radical surgery on the EU 'project' (whatever the fugg that is). I wanted the EU to become more democratic, more accountable, more reflective of its people's wishes, less dogmatic and less authoritarian.

However, that option wasn't available, so I voted to Leave for all the reasons I've raised previously in this thread.

But there is now a sign that the shock of Brexit has, if not woken up the nameless paper-pushers, at least made them realise that they might need to start listening. There is genuine sadness amongst the leaders of northern European leaders (all bar France, it seems) about our decision, which I hope might turn to action.

Which is why I'm rather intrigued by Ms McCaviar's proposal that the Scotties might be able to veto the implementation of article 50. I understand her position that she's acting on behalf of those she represents, who clearly want to stay in the EU, and that in doing so she'll do whatever she can to see that they get what they want.

The other thing that going down that route will do is to squash any ideas of another referendum for Scottish independence, as she would be acting as a constituent partner within the UK.

.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

I may be wrong, but I think you have a bad hand.

Stay strong.

Worst comes to the worst we've got nukes.