President Donald Trump's Final Days...

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by laberbacke

Excellent analysis. The 62 million disgruntled citizens who elected Trump won't go away, if and when he does. The issues that make these people angry still persist. There is a cancer metastasizing in the American body politic and it's been growing for a long, long time, with the earliest cancerous cells reaching back to the very founding of the country. That cancer doesn't go away just by surgically removing one single metastasis.


The country's remaining greatest hope for a turnaround may be its youth. Unfortunately it is a generation that may be the "wokest" ever, but is much too busy spending hours on instagram and snapchat every day to get their behinds to the voting booth once every two years.

The younger folk are much less racist than we old farts.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez shocked a lot of people by defeating heavyweight Democrat Joe Crowley in a recent congressional primary. Here's a clip where she discusses getting out the vote with Stephen Colbert.

https://youtu.be/Y_1G4_oPt_o

There are a raft of young people out there working on new platforms and involved in grass roots politics. They don't feel represented by the geriatric obstructionists who have been in power. They also don't feel like the government is working for them and are not willing to continue getting screwed. Unknowns are winning races. Change may well happen much more quickly than the pundits believe.

"Socialism" is not a bad word for those who have no memory of Communism. They see the socialist democracies of Scandinavia and want some of that rather than what we've got now. I know this because I have four nieces and a nephew under 30 and see their Facebook exchanges with their friends.

Both Obama and Trump were elected by voters unhappy with the status quo. Do you really think that they feel better now? Is the little guy going to be better off 2 years from now?

[LadyLuck]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

The younger folk are much less racist than we old farts.

There are a raft of young people out there working on new platforms and involved in grass roots politics. They don't feel represented by the geriatric obstructionists who have been in power. They also don't feel like the government is working for them and are not willing to continue getting screwed. Unknowns are winning races. Change may well happen much more quickly than the pundits believe.

I am not saying that you are wrong but people were saying these same sentiments in the late 60s and early 70s about the younger generation at that time. Yet, here we are. I'm unconvinced that the millennials can divert their attention away from their smart phones long enough to make a difference unless the issue can be condensed down to a hashtag.

[LaughingBoy]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Trump, uniquely, read the mood of country differently than his competitors, and saw opportunity where no one else did. That's highly adaptive. He didn't win because of some random fluke. He won because he made his opportunity and found his allies, and this was very much his design. I believe him when he raged at Steve Bannon-- Bannon's departure hasn't made one iota of difference in Trump's ability to talk to his audience.



Absolutely true. Which is to the point-- Trump read the changing public mood better than other people did. He also changed the public mood. There's a line about what a "demagogue" is -- someone who "radicalizes their followers", Trump did more than a little of that. But mostly, he just read a mood which others ignored. He turned the Republican Party 180 degrees on things like trade; that's his read and his politics.

He also built a personal brand to exploit this sentiment. Other cranky yappers have made themselves some money talking to Trump's cranky fans-- Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck. Trump saw that he could go much, much further

There's a line of Danton's de l'audace, encore de l'audace, et toujours de l'audace that describes Trump. Obama may have talked about "the audacity of hope" -- but he is in fact a very middle of the road and personally conservative man, a norm-supporter, not a rule breaker. The most "audacious" thing about Obama is that he thought a black man could be President-- beyond that, he's as conventional as a university President.

Trump, by contrast, is an awful person with shabby ambitions who soils everyone who embraces him, unless they're already pretty shabby themselves. He's in his element with other brutal misogynists, and for all his railing against Latinos and Africans, he's very much a character like Mugabe or Duterte, though Mugabe dresses better . . .

Trump is not our misfortune; rather he's the guy who looked at the inflamed abscess of American political life and said to himself "oh I like this, let's have more of that".

It sounds like in this post you're giving the Orange Menace credit for having Vision and seeing things that other people can't or couldn't... This is waay too generous. He was gifted by having a truly gullible base that couldn't critically think: "You can fool some of the people, ALL of the time..."

I was watching a Daily Show interview the other day...(I can't remember who the guest was..) but it boiled down to...two comedians talking about how comedians build and develop a routine...you see what works and use it in the next show...this is EXACTLY how Rump campaigned. And he's still campaigning today...instead of doing his job. He developed a routine that played well with his suggestible, gullible base....basically hashtags that are easy to parrot: Build the Wall# ...Drain the Swamp# ....and thanks to a rigged election with Russia tipping the scales ....he got sworn in...and now....He's a performer...that's in charge of policy...AND Nukes....

fortunately for regular comedians no one expects them to keep the promises they make in their "routines"....

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

Both Obama and Trump were elected by voters unhappy with the status quo. Do you really think that they feel better now? Is the little guy going to be better off 2 years from now?

In the case of Obama, there was a reason to be pissed off at the status quo -- the Republican Administration had launched the US on endless and expensive wars, and presided over the collapse of the financial system.

The in 2016 was different: just why should someone have been angry at the status quo after 8 years of competent administration? True the Middle East wasn't fixed -- but US commitments there were greatly reduced. The economy was growing, employment was up, stock market well above its financial crisis lows.

Hard to see why "let's burn this all down" made sense in 2016-- particularly for Trump's more affluent voters.

There's a common narrative that Trump was elected by poorer working class white voters; he did get an overwhelming vote from whites without a college education, but his voters were on average, wealthier than voters voting for HRC.
.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Hard to see why "let's burn this all down" made sense in 2016-- particularly for Trump's more affluent voters.

it's going to be hard to see. Cause the recovery was illusionary to all except the ownership class, the working class the talk of recovery made things more frustrating cause they didn't experience either a rise in wages or even wages that stayed the same in some cases. Also, during the time of the election Obama was pushing the TPP, another trade deal which two alive is voters who remember NAFTA left a bad taste in their mouths and for him to push so hard for it felt like another betrayal.

Originally Posted by deepsepia

There's a common narrative that Trump was elected by poorer working class white voters; he did get an overwhelming vote from whites without a college education, but his voters were on average, wealthier than voters voting for HRC.

hillary's performance among the white working class was more about them not trusting Hillary than them loving Trump. I said before they still remembered the effects of NAFTA and did not trust she was against the TPP and would eventually pass the legislation. It was funny Democratic party turned their backs on about half their voters and still expected to win, and when they didn't they want to try to blame everybody including those voters when it was their idea to ignore those voters in the first place.

[LaughingBoy]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

In the case of Obama, there was a reason to be pissed off at the status quo -- the Republican Administration had launched the US on endless and expensive wars, and presided over the collapse of the financial system.

The in 2016 was different: just why should someone have been angry at the status quo after 8 years of competent administration? True the Middle East wasn't fixed -- but US commitments there were greatly reduced. The economy was growing, employment was up, stock market well above its financial crisis lows.

Hard to see why "let's burn this all down" made sense in 2016-- particularly for Trump's more affluent voters.

There's a common narrative that Trump was elected by poorer working class white voters; he did get an overwhelming vote from whites without a college education, but his voters were on average, wealthier than voters voting for HRC.
.

The middle class has been getting slowly dismantled since Reagan cut the upper tax in half in 1980. Any gains in since 1980 have all gone to the "1%", NOT the middle class. Want to make America Great Again? Then institute the tax code we had when America was great. Eisenhower, say.... I REALLY like Ike. And Twitler has made it even worse by giving the 1% and our Corporate Overlords even more giant tax breaks, payed for by....wait for it....our besieged Middle class.... Stunningly the wealth gap is very rarely mentioned in campaign rhetoric. Or maybe not so surprisingly, since it wouldn't play well with the Donor class, and that's who pays for people to get elected.

While Obama was plenty competent and worked his butt off,but he doesn't write the laws. He was in large part stymied by a republican Congress that insisted upon having 50+ votes on repealing Obamacare(Romneycare writ large).So, competent predictable leadership led to Wall street kicking a bit of ass. Unfortunately, Main street by and large is where the Middle class lives... and Main Street has been chipped away at since 1980.

So, on paper, Obama did pretty well. Wall street is one metric that he can point to, and is one measure of the strength of the American economy.

But, as a working class stiff, I see my generation failing badly. Mine is the first generation in quite awhile that didn't have it better than their parents. While the economy has jobs, many of them are not jobs you could retire on. Corporations and 1%ers are loving life, though.

When you talk about "Pissed Off Voters" wanting to burn it all down, Deep, I think these are the reasons why...It's mostly the Wealth Gap. And that's a world wide problem...look at Greece and Mexico...

And they aren't readily apparent reasons, thus people fall for the canard,"It's those lousy Immigrants taking that lousy apple picking job that I don't want!"...

So there's an almost unconscious anger at the ways things are...and wanting them to be better...

So here's my attempt at a catchy hashtag...to rile up voters!

"I LIKE IKE'S ...TAX CODE!#

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

it's going to be hard to see. Cause the recovery was illusionary to all except the ownership class, the working class the talk of recovery made things more frustrating cause they didn't experience either a rise in wages or even wages that stayed the same in some cases.

Yes, but again-- Trump voters were wealthier than HRC voters.

So you can't really argue that the Trump voter was "working class" vs some wealthier "ownership class" voting for HRC.

Obama had delivered a pretty dramatic increase in healthcare benefits-- in the states which had gone along with ACA expansion.

So I have a hard time seeing the Trump voter as some kind of revolutionary.

Its more a "revolt of the rich" than a "revolt of the poor".

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Yes, but again-- Trump voters were wealthier than HRC voters.

So you can't really argue that the Trump voter was "working class" vs some wealthier "ownership class" voting for HRC.

you seem to not be taking into account the word turnout. HRC had something like 5 million less votes than Obama had in a 2012 election. Even though she ended up with more votes than Trump that deficit over the country made a difference. what I am saying is it what I am saying is it wasn't it wasn't the support of the wealthier voters best secured the victory for Trump but more of the abandonment by the working-class that sealed Hillary's fate.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

I am not saying that you are wrong but people were saying these same sentiments in the late 60s and early 70s about the younger generation at that time. Yet, here we are. I'm unconvinced that the millennials can divert their attention away from their smart phones long enough to make a difference unless the issue can be condensed down to a hashtag.

It turned out that the counter culture was overhyped in the 60s & 70s. Plus, many developed serious substance abuse problems out of the drug experiments.

And clearly, there are some younger racist types as we can see from Charlottesville & elsewhere. The kids may have their nose in their smartphones, but do you know where which sites they are accessing, or who they are texting and what the messages are? I know some college professors who have discovered that the kids were using their phones to take notes and record lectures, not to check out during class. It is a real mistake to underestimate them. And, of course, being young they will be making mistakes.

I would be more comfortable if more had gotten military training. This country's past indicates that they are going to need it in the process of affecting change. But, these ought-to-be-retirees claiming to speak for America are seriously out of touch with the voters. Expect more electoral upsets.

[charliels531]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

There's a common narrative that Trump was elected by poorer working class white voters; he did get an overwhelming vote from whites without a college education, but his voters were on average, wealthier than voters voting for HRC.
.

Agreed. And it is again necessary to point out that Trump has never had the support of a plurality of the American voters, let alone a majority. He had a majority of the electors of the slaveocracy.