The Great Britain Independence Thread - Page 2

**knobby109** · January 9th, 2012, 05:33 PM

The stumbling block is oil.It's in international waters but some rights are ceded to the UK and it happens to be brought ashore in Scotland.Who actually gets what in the event of independence would need to be looked at very carefully and the Scots might well be in for a shock.
Scotland has done amazingly well within the Union , joining just in time to be part of the greatest show on earth.It has an amazing record of inventiveness and innovation which would have been stifled as an independent nation, as it was it retained access to English money and markets while retaining its legal and educational system. I feel that if it gets independence there would be many regrets.

**monogroover** · January 9th, 2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybunter

Very true norbert. Yes the SNP has been campaigning for a very long time for independence. If Scotland wants it they should have it.

They probably don't. But I don't think it should solely be up to them, anyway.

**knobby109** · January 9th, 2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleetwood77

It's attitudes like that, on both sides of the border, that cause resentment.

"Let them go" !! It sounds like you think you could stop us going if we choose to..

Not really. Scotland asked to join, it became part of the Union which was a very close interweaving of the countries.Parting on any reasonable terms requires the agreement of all parties.

**billybunter** · January 9th, 2012, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monogroover

They probably don't. But I don't think it should solely be up to them, anyway.

em, why? Are the Scottish people not able to cast a vote

**billybunter** · January 9th, 2012, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knobby109

Not really. Scotland asked to join, it became part of the Union which was a very close interweaving of the countries.Parting on any reasonable terms requires the agreement of all parties.

Scotland like Wales & Ireland were invaded by England. Granted, a long time ago. But nobody stood up with glee and shouted with joy about the act of union.
All celtic nations have sought nationhood. And as long as the majority want it, and by peaceful means only. It should be granted.

**Wendigo** · January 9th, 2012, 07:23 PM

Would be interesting to read the wording on the referendum paper. The Scots are lucky they may get a chance of a meaningful vote, something we English are often denied.
Personally I'd like the UK to stay together but let's see what happens.

I'd like to see a proper referendum on Britain in Europe, we're part of a club that can't publish properly audited accounts, encourages wholesale nepotism and corruption and blacklists anyone who dares bring these issues to light. I'm not anti mainland Europe io general but am very definitely anti EU in its current state.

**haroldeye** · January 9th, 2012, 07:27 PM

Scotland joined into a union with England freely and of it's own will. The deal was England got security for it's Northern borders and Scotland got bailed out of bankruptcy caused by the Darien project and access to English markets. Given that the Scots were broke and desperate they managed to negotiate a very good deal.

If you think that the '45 was an invasion by England try looking at the Regiments that fought on the Government side at Culloden. Far more Scots than there were Englishmen.

P37 · January 9th, 2012, 07:57 PM

why do we English not have our own parliament or assembly? All the others do, the scots, irish, welsh, muslims etc all have one or the other why not us English?

calypsored · January 9th, 2012, 08:40 PM

So Cameron will grant the Scot's a referendum on their independence... but back pedals fiercely from every reminder of his 'promise' to hold one on the UK's EU membership.

The Scots as a nation within a Union are entrusted with being able to decide their national destiny but the Union as a whole is not trusted to do so with a MUCH bigger stake at risk.

Could it be that he suspects he knows the likely result of both, I wonder?

**mizlaplan** · January 9th, 2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbert84

The Scottish have been talking about independence for decades. I remember their last serious attempt from 1999 and a tv ad with Scotland breaking away from the British map. I think it was an ad by the SNP.
I guess it's against English interests to leave UK. They need free access to the North Sea.

What's this?
Furriners butting into dear old Blighty's politics?

Hmmm.......
**checks Norbert84's profile**
OK, I'm off to Vienna to help promote the Black-Yellow Alliance

Austria needs a return to Monarchy asap.
Wolfgang Geissler for Prime Minister

January 9th, 2012, 07:57 PM	#18
P37 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: in the deep end Posts: 648 Thanks: 4,235 Thanked 5,572 Times in 620 Posts	why do we English not have our own parliament or assembly? All the others do, the scots, irish, welsh, muslims etc all have one or the other why not us English? Last edited by P37; January 9th, 2012 at 08:06 PM..

January 9th, 2012, 05:33 PM	#11
knobby109 Vintage Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 144 Thanked 14,339 Times in 1,702 Posts	The stumbling block is oil.It's in international waters but some rights are ceded to the UK and it happens to be brought ashore in Scotland.Who actually gets what in the event of independence would need to be looked at very carefully and the Scots might well be in for a shock. Scotland has done amazingly well within the Union , joining just in time to be part of the greatest show on earth.It has an amazing record of inventiveness and innovation which would have been stifled as an independent nation, as it was it retained access to English money and markets while retaining its legal and educational system. I feel that if it gets independence there would be many regrets.

January 9th, 2012, 07:23 PM	#16
Wendigo Former Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Blighty Posts: 113,885 Thanks: 259,986 Thanked 1,140,437 Times in 114,004 Posts	Would be interesting to read the wording on the referendum paper. The Scots are lucky they may get a chance of a meaningful vote, something we English are often denied. Personally I'd like the UK to stay together but let's see what happens. I'd like to see a proper referendum on Britain in Europe, we're part of a club that can't publish properly audited accounts, encourages wholesale nepotism and corruption and blacklists anyone who dares bring these issues to light. I'm not anti mainland Europe io general but am very definitely anti EU in its current state.

January 9th, 2012, 07:27 PM	#17
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,716 Thanks: 113,591 Thanked 59,980 Times in 5,708 Posts	Scotland joined into a union with England freely and of it's own will. The deal was England got security for it's Northern borders and Scotland got bailed out of bankruptcy caused by the Darien project and access to English markets. Given that the Scots were broke and desperate they managed to negotiate a very good deal. If you think that the '45 was an invasion by England try looking at the Regiments that fought on the Government side at Culloden. Far more Scots than there were Englishmen.

January 9th, 2012, 08:40 PM	#19
calypsored Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 10 Thanks: 2 Thanked 52 Times in 10 Posts	So Cameron will grant the Scot's a referendum on their independence... but back pedals fiercely from every reminder of his 'promise' to hold one on the UK's EU membership. The Scots as a nation within a Union are entrusted with being able to decide their national destiny but the Union as a whole is not trusted to do so with a MUCH bigger stake at risk. Could it be that he suspects he knows the likely result of both, I wonder?