Digitizing 8mm

[bygoneguy]

Originally Posted by DubSalute

Best tool for the job in my book is a flashscan8:
http://www.mwa-nova.com/flashscan8.htm

I agree with Dub that the flashscan8 is a good product, but IMO it is no better than MovieStuff's Sniper Pro http://www.moviestuff.tv/dv8_sniper_pro.html and it is USD $7395.00

It can't be because it is the same technology - a built in 3CCD camera head with modified lenses (because the camera is so close to the film frame) that can totally focus on the emulsion side of the film. It might have a couple of nice extras like DV out so you don't have to have a $200 capture device, and a variable framerate but for €40.000,00 new they are are kidding.

Pro Telecine on Rank Cintel Flying Spot film scanners used by movie houses to digitize film cost USD $750K new and up to $250K second hand. This technology is like picture scanning every frame. The next best thing is using a 3CCD camera to capture the emulsion side of the film and anything using that technology is comparable in quality.

While the Flashscan8 and Sniper Pro are all-in-one units they can only produce results the same as I get with my setup. The only benefit they have is framerate they can transfer up to 25fps and I can only do 8fps but that just means they can do it faster not better. MovieStuff are number one in this area they have shipped nearly four thousand units worldwide. I have had many discussions with them, and in the end of the day it is all about the quality of the 3CCD camera and the capture device with regards to getting good results.

Regards, -bg

[DubSalute]

Originally Posted by bygoneguy

I agree with Dub that the flashscan8 is a good product, but IMO it is no better than MovieStuff's Sniper Pro ...

The camera that captures is likely equaly very good on both set-ups.

Still my prefered set-up would be the flashscan8 as it has realtime very extended color correction options, that realy impressed me when i saw it at a demonstration. They played the 8mm through the machine and adjusted the speed, then they tweaked the colors, rewinded the film and then recorded directly to DVD Harddisk recorder via firewire, so in one step you can go from 8mm to color corrected result on DVD. Also it supports audio.

But its indeed expensive

[DARPA]

Well as I'm out of work, that kind of money ain't going to a setup to digitize a handful of films. I'd rather blow that kind of money on another dive trip to the South Pacific.

Bygoneguy, check your PM...thanks.

[bygoneguy]

Originally Posted by DubSalute

The camera that captures is likely equaly very good on both set-ups.

Still my prefered set-up would be the flashscan8 as it has realtime very extended color correction options, that realy impressed me when i saw it at a demonstration. They played the 8mm through the machine and adjusted the speed, then they tweaked the colors, rewinded the film and then recorded directly to DVD Harddisk recorder via firewire, so in one step you can go from 8mm to color corrected result on DVD. Also it supports audio.

But its indeed expensive

I can color correct at the camera in real-time as well. Look at this screen cap.



This program allows me to fully control the (Sony DXC) camera at the computer. Not just color, but detail and pedestal (contrast) zoom and focus etc.

The camera outputs S-VIDEO to an external (Canopus) capture device which then sends IEE1394 (firewire) to the computer.

The Sniper Pro units support real-time color adjustments as well as they have a built in 3CCD.

Additionally, if I wanted to get a BlackMagic Decklink Studio capture card for $695 I could then color correct at both camera and at the capture device in real-time.

I can do audio via a separate projector and sync up later but rarely do. I have only ever come across a few loops that had original sound so it is not worth it much of the time.

Here is my big advantage - I can buy a hi-def camera and a BlackMagic DeckLink HD Extreme and be doing hi-def captures for approximately a USD 2K upgrade.

I wonder what an upgrade to hi-def would cost an owner of a Flashscan8.

At the end of the day, the Flashscan 'bundles' several individual components (that can be pieced together much cheaper) and can transfer faster than my setup. The SniperPro can do 25fps and color correct in real-time. Moviestuff don't offer a unit for 8mm that supports sound and they move a lot of units so maybe that speaks for itself.

Don't get me wrong it is a great unit, but for the price spare me. A high-end MovieStuff unit and Blackmagic capture board for less than USD $10K will produce results as good as the Flashscan8 (and maybe better) and I can't be swayed

-bg

[DubSalute]

Originally Posted by bygoneguy

... and I can't be swayed

Good, i'm also a stuborn guy.

You are probably 100% right that for a lot less money and some own handyness on combining whats available one could create a better set-up for a lot less money. I'm pretty low tech & budget guy and not at home on what is available and the quality it can produce. I have no experience at working with higher end products so i surely can not advice there. My camera only has few settings; On and Off and then it can do some tones like Daylight, Vivid, Neutral, Soft, its very restricted and my wish when i could choose what to work with instead would be the flashscan8, its not a realistic wish but also not a bad wish. Probably Santa however will also this year pass my chimney at full speed again i'm afraid

So in the meantime i will keep busy with what i have Perhaps better camera will be reachable in future, but its hobby so can not get to expensive.

[bygoneguy]

Originally Posted by DubSalute

my wish when i could choose what to work with instead would be the flashscan8, its not a realistic wish but also not a bad wish. Probably Santa however will also this year pass my chimney at full speed again i'm afraid

I wish Santa would drop a Rank Cintel flying spot scanner down my chimney

I have seen them for 60-100K second hand but I wonder what the service would be like. I keep all my favourite films and live in hope. Maybe I can float BGM and raise some money

[DARPA]

Originally Posted by bygoneguy

I wonder what an upgrade to hi-def would cost an owner of a Flashscan8.

Would there really be a point in upgrading to HD to do 8mm? Isn't that like getting blood out of a turnip? I could see some advantages in getting high end equipment to do 8mm on SD because the resolution is not as good. But would you be able to notice a difference on an HD TV given the poor quality of the 8mm source material? Wouldn't you do just about as well if you took the SD video conversion and shot that out to Blu-Ray instead of standard DVD?

[DubSalute]

Originally Posted by DARPA

Would there really be a point in upgrading to HD to do 8mm?

When you capture in actual HD resolution then it would make sense for me.

IMO the better the camera the better you can capture.

[IMG]http://i48.*******.com/14l4h8j.gif[/IMG]

What i personaly however find a bit of a crime is some people cropping the old films to fit the 16:9 resolutions.

[DARPA]

Originally Posted by DubSalute

What i personaly however find a bit of a crime is some people cropping the old films to fit the 16:9 resolutions.

A bit of a crime? That's Murder One. What's the point of trying to make a HD capable version of a loop if you're not going to include the whole picture?

[bygoneguy]

Originally Posted by DARPA

Would there really be a point in upgrading to HD to do 8mm? Isn't that like getting blood out of a turnip? I could see some advantages in getting high end equipment to do 8mm on SD because the resolution is not as good. But would you be able to notice a difference on an HD TV given the poor quality of the 8mm source material? Wouldn't you do just about as well if you took the SD video conversion and shot that out to Blu-Ray instead of standard DVD?

The jury is out for me with regards 8mm, but for 16mm absolutely and we have all seen hollywood films shot on 35mm converted to hi-def and and remastered which look good. Read below what movie stuff say about it.

Standard Definition or High Definition
http://www.moviestuff.tv/transfers_2.html

Also, take a look at the samples on the moviestuff page, particularly the 16mm but be sure to have a look at the last 8mm example on the bottom left of this page.

http://www.moviestuff.tv/new_sniper_hd_samples.html

I think 16mm film that is good shape done in hi-def on a big screen would look pretty good.

I know capturing in hi-def and downsizing to SD will look excellent for sure. You are getting more horizontal lines of resolution at the initial capture. I do that already with a camera that can get 750 horizontal lines, I can only imagine getting 1080 would be a lot better.

I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon, mainly because really 'good quality' (not consumer or even prosumer) HD cameras are still heavily priced, but I think in a couple of years when I can pick up a broadcast level HD camera second hand I might make the jump, even if I am still downscaling the captures to SD it would be nice to have HD masters.