Unions

[Meini Hirion]

This thread seems a bit confused imo.

On the one hand we have "personal gripes" about "personal-interactions" with local Reps or members.

On the other hand we have people trying to place "Unionism" in a social or historical context.

The dicthomy will never work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOCWUgwiWs

Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbzxemJZIc

[BustyWomenLovr]

I worked for a few years in a "closed shop" - I had to join the Teamsters to get the job.
Our shop steward was worthless - he parroted what the boss told him. He offered no support for a new hire who was accused of theft. No evidence, and the guy was so new he didn't even know where the safe was, much less the combination. (that's why he wasn't charged) As it turns out, the manager was the thief.
On another occasion, I was jerked around, again no support, but didn't care I was was leaving one school for another in another state and had to leave the area. But before I left, had to get some dental work done - hey, it was my "benefit" - Went to the shop steward to ask about coverage, and he exploded in to reasons why I wasn't jerked around on the other item - and when he stopped for air I said "I just wanted to ask about the dental plan" He turned red - and stormed out half dressed and left. Everyone stared slack jawed until another driver spoke up "I guess that confirms you were jerked around." One of the guys I worked with said one day his life was set, he had another 2 years to put in as a regular guy, then he was going to be elected shop steward, and then rise in the ranks of the Teamsters just like his dad. "Gee Rick, what if you don't get the votes?" "No, I'll get elected, don't worry about it."
After two years at the new school I needed a job to finish paying for school and went to the local shop - No, you can't move here and look for work, oh, you are here for school? No problem. Go see the shop steward." "Oh you worked in a another state 2 years ago? Well your first several paychecks will be taken for back union dues" But I wasn't employed" "I don't care - pay up."
Unions are great in principal, but the corruption didn't die with Jimmy Hoffa.
I'm sorry - but they lost my support a while ago - and my interactions with them and their "support" in my current (non teamster) job has only reinforced this.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by bigtrain45

Spoken like a true fatcat............. No, we don't need unions anymore. Like hell we don't.

I started this thread because I'm sick to death of them, but always see a need for them. What they need to do is smarten up a bit. I pity a country that does not manufacture things, it's on a downhill slide here I directly blame them for it, and to an extent some Government policies from both sides of politics

I'm going back to my thread starting post here

Originally Posted by Estreeter

My mind started changing about 14 years ago, we were going through a new enterprise agreement with that company I worked for then. At a union meeting for an update on how negotiations were going, I asked our steward a question he didn't want to answer... He gave me a typical politicians answer, one that barely touched on my question.... So I pressed him for an answer only to have one of his mates step in and try humiliate me... but then quite a few of the members stopped what could have been a punch on and demanded an answer to my question... which we never got A week or so later, I passed my steward in an aisle at my workplace and he quietly voiced his disgust at me, privately That's when I started getting disenchanted

The company I worked for was Ford, been in my hometown since 1925. Dad started work there in the late 50's and retired in mid 90's. Mum worked there for a small number years, older bother worked there from early 80's till 6 weeks ago and made redundant along with myself for 22 years. My hometown has a population of around 200,00 and that history can be repeated over and over and over with it's residents. Many are not really pissed off much with Ford, some are, but most aren't blaming Ford. Most are now disgruntled with Government and unions. Back to my original post.... The question I asked our Senior Shop Steward.

This meeting was going on for way over an hour with the members, He was standing up there with his drinking buddies big mouthing himself about how how was screwing management with our log of claims. He was going out of his way to get members in favor of a strike. The stumbling block
was a 36 hour week and amount of pay increase. I order to get that the company wanted to grant an 18% pay increase over 3 years but wanted a productivity improvement with the 36 hour week out of the question. This was at a time when our market share was in a big decline, it was normal for Ford and GM to have around 25 % of market share each, but in the previous 3 to 5 years was suddenly at the 15 to 17 % mark, a huge drop and most normal people knew we were in serious trouble.

So I put my hand up and asked one simple question which pretty much went word for word, Do you stewards ever go into a meeting and tell the company you want them to remain here and what can we do to help, we want to compromise or just demand and demand ? . He took offense that a member could even think of such a question to ask him. He couldn't answer it because he was the type of Senior Steward that thrived on making trouble. He thrived on making trouble when he was an apprentice, he was a lazy asshole who would use all his sick days every year, he was always the first to suggest industrial action, and all that even before he was a steward. Most people from what I can gather go to work and just want to do their and go home. The lazy assholes with a sick in their ass all the time with any major employer who just want to argue and be in meeting most days are what's wrong with unions......... Get rid of shit like that and Unions just might have a chance and members just might keep their jobs long term and not see sweat shops in South East Asia thrive.

And as for Union corruption, There is an ongoing Royal Commission into Union corruption here this year... Real interesting



I know there would be some corruption among companies , only a fool would deny that, But this I know, Never once was a weekly or monthly as it is nowadays pay deposited into my bank account by a union, But my employers have.

[9876543210]

Ran into a friend today and he had an interesting take on unions. He said something to the effect that if you own a business and you have a union, then its your fault.

Basically meaning that if you own a business and don't treat your employees well then why wonder when you have high turnover or employees who are disgruntled.

I understand unions have their problems but today, companies do very little to keep employees satisfied. If they did there would be little need for unions.

[savage560]

Don't know how it is in NZ?But in the USA they were the reason America was what it once was.A pretty damn good place to live for the ones who had union jobs ,& non union too!I can't fathom why so many knock them here,probably because they're squalloring because they are'nt in one!Now they're only representative of a small percentage of the populace ,but the ones who have union representation are'nt subject to the abuse that goes on in non union employment.Usually at the whim of sadistic bosses,who are in no shortage in any employment venues.They give workers some dignity & keep a check & ballance on some of the abuse that goes on in the workplace by goons of the corporations.If the corporations had their way only,the clocks would be turned back to the pre- 1860's.

Are they perfect?Hell no!There is a plethora of reasons why they are not.But they do provide a necessary protection for the evils of what mankind can do to abuse his fellow man,in the workplace.In the US they,from what I've seen,unions don't dictate to the corporations they represent workers in ,how to run their corporations,but ,for the most part try to protect the membership from unfair work tactics,corporate goons bullying, & try to get their workers a good income.Unfortunately here ,they also have to be in the bussiness of being a health care representative & negotiate with the corporations to get a descent HC sys. for the workers they represent,unlike the Brit commonwealth of counties, you dudes have,your NHC.

I kind of figured you'd be anti-union, Streets,but if you seen how they're run in Yankee land for the most part,maybe you'd have a revelation,that they are, for the most part a neccessary ,evil to some,but also a blessing to other average joes?There is allways 2 sides to a coin.

[SanteeFats]

I grew up in the AFL_CIO and Teamsters power era. I remember their abuse of that power that they used only for the union's benefit and the heck with anyone else. One of the union's would go on strike and all the other union's workers would not cross the picket line. So it was cave or go under for the business.
Hmmm just had a thought (I do get one once in awhile) could the overseas manufacturing flight have been laid with seeds of resentment from the above referenced time? Just wondering.???
Responsible union leadership and responsible ownership lead to a great working environment for both sides!! Unfortunately in today's climate I seem to see business trying to bust the union's, which is wrong, IMO and union's trying to get all they can. This attitude leads to a winner and a loser, usually the union, and discontent within the losers numbers.
Now my experience's and opinion's have been formed only from an admittedly small and local sample. I am sure there are areas where both sides get along, at least to some extent. I applaud that.

[Quackerson]

Originally Posted by Meini Hirion

This thread seems a bit confused imo.

On the one hand we have "personal gripes" about "personal-interactions" with local Reps or members.

On the other hand we have people trying to place "Unionism" in a social or historical context.

The dicthomy will never work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOCWUgwiWs

Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbzxemJZIc

Always answer the question you WISH had been asked.

[AmateurEmale]

I first worked for wages in the American workplace in 1994, and my first job was as a bagger/cart pusher/janitor at a Kroger grocery store represented by the UFCW (United Food and Commercial Workers' union, Local 1099). Immediately I noticed that they had a liberal / left-wing slant in their official magazine, but my friends who were rank-and-file workers said that "They suck, except when they used to get us good contracts."

Fast forward to 2013, when I worked as a truck unloader at another grocery store in the same area of Cincinnati. The same three guys were still in control of that union at the state level, but now their seniority allowed them to make $300,000 a year EACH, while new hires were barely getting $20,000! And these are guys with liberal / left-wing views who rant about "income inequality" in the U.S., while making more money than the store directors at the companies they represent (I believe that our store director at Meijer made about $200,000 managing a Wal-Mart sized supercenter)...

The unions are the most capitalistic and corrupt of everyone in capitalism, except possibly the banks and car companies.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by savage560

I kind of figured you'd be anti-union, Streets

Don't get me wrong Mate
I'm not anti union I hate and despise what they have become

But I do and always will agree with the principal of a union.

Our Labor Party, very similar of your Democrats.
If one want to become a member of the Labor party, you have to also join a union, it didn't matter which union, as long as you're in one. Raising capital I call it

Oh, and somehow,end up aligning themselves too the Greens Party

The party that claim they're green, when it suits to suck in the public who might be concerned with environmental issues.

But when you look at our Greens overall policies, they're more left wing than the Unions and Labor party combined

Fat chance I'll ever give a Union one cent again if they're in bed with the greens

[brk549]

If not for the unions we wouldn't have had to put up with Harry Reed the last four years.I think that alone would be enough to turn anyone against the unions.They should be spending that money on their membership and not electing dickheads like him.