Unions

[Estreeter]

Are you a member of a union ?
If so.... why

Because you want to be or because you have no choice

There was a time I was full on 100% union .... Till this morning, Now it's full on 100% hatred

I agree with and will never change my thought on the basic need for unions, workers should be looked after with regards to pay, leave, safety and so on .

But, as I've gotten older, I'm finding them, and can only speak for the ones here, loathsome

My mind started changing about 14 years ago, we were going through a new enterprise agreement with that company I worked for then. At a union meeting for an update on how negotiations were going, I asked our steward a question he didn't want to answer... He gave me a typical politicians answer, one that barely touched on my question.... So I pressed him for an answer only to have one of his mates step in and try humiliate me... but then quite a few of the members stopped what could have been a punch on and demanded an answer to my question... which we never got A week or so later, I passed my steward in an aisle at my workplace and he quietly voiced his disgust at me, privately That's when I started getting disenchanted

Fast forward 14 years to this morning, My job of being the night shift supervisor and electrician for a company is demanding. I'm responsible for everything, safety, quality, maintenance, production and blah blah blah. I have a small group I look after at night, 16 of us , 2 of which are in a union. Those are the 3 I have problems with 2 of them are mechanical tradespeople. I've asked them many time for them to stagger their lunch breaks so if I ever need one quickly, there's one at hand... which they ignore repeatedly Lat night, I needed one very urgently, got on the 2 way ... no answer over and over... both were at lunch I asked if either of them would get up, give me a hand and can have a full lunch later on.... Only to be told to "Fuck Off" So I let them finish their lunch, 50 minutes they had though it's only mean to be 35 I had a minor shot at them after we got the problem repaired, but the damage was done.... I was gonna get my ass kicked by management for the delay and let them know that I'll be informing management of their lack of co-operation.

One then said that I was harassing them and they'll see the union about my behavior So they did..... Got hauled back to work this morning for a meeting with management and 2 union officials Not only did those 2 lie about the incident... demanded an apology These are 2 blokes who are proud to be union protected, boast about it and always seem to be asked up to 3 or 4 times to do a job

I just hate unions here now, they just seem to be about how much can I get for doing less And If you work for a company, they become a charity to ya

I only know one thing, A company exists to make money , a union don't have to make money... unions seem to make it more difficult for a company to do that

Rant over For now.

[SanteeFats]

I agree with a lot of your post E. While I have never been a union member, (why bother when the union had to represent non members in disputes)?, I have seen their progression from something that was definitely needed when they first started to nothing more than political machines in their own right. In the US, in my city as an example, our firefighters have to join their union and the union spends dues on political agendas that the top echelon chooses wither or not the general membership agrees. Same here with the sheriff's. It has gotten to the point now that when I see either or both supporting some ballot measure or a certain candidate that I automatically am biased against it.

[bigtrain45]

It's economic war out there, and management and ownership have almost all of the weapons. The only weapon a worker has is his or her work, and as unions and the middle class shrink all over the world, it makes it more and more difficult for people to get paid a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. I am an American, and the Republican Party and their corporate overlords, like the Walton Family and the Kochs, have taken aim at unions because they are the largest contributors to Democratic candidates. Management tries to set workers against each other, so they fight among themselves and not united against management to get better conditions and pay, and clearly that has worked well where you are Estreeter. Of course there are jerks in Unions, just like there are jerks in management and ownership. It can work well though, if ownership deals honestly with their unions. The only profitable airline in the US< Southwest, also has the largest percentage of union employees, and may be the only large company where management and employees attend the same company parties and picnics.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by bigtrain45

It's economic war out there, and management and ownership have almost all of the weapons. The only weapon a worker has is his or her work, and as unions and the middle class shrink all over the world, it makes it more and more difficult for people to get paid a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. I am an American, and the Republican Party and their corporate overlords, like the Walton Family and the Kochs, have taken aim at unions because they are the largest contributors to Democratic candidates. Management tries to set workers against each other, so they fight among themselves and not united against management to get better conditions and pay, and clearly that has worked well where you are Estreeter. Of course there are jerks in Unions, just like there are jerks in management and ownership. It can work well though, if ownership deals honestly with their unions. The only profitable airline in the US< Southwest, also has the largest percentage of union employees, and may be the only large company where management and employees attend the same company parties and picnics.

I think you have hit the nail on the head in some respects. It is the general inability or unwillingness of either side to work to their MUTUAL advantage and compromise on the issues they have. It seems that it is now an adversarial role on both sides. As you pointed out Southwest has a good relationship with their employees and the union so both prosper. Too many companies or unions just want to win their points and not settle.

[Blue126]

Thanks, question? I work for a firm that recognize's a trade union "but" only allows the trade union to vote on all are matters. Is this legal? or do's this infringe my human rights ?
Do's my company have a legal right to pay my sub's to the union?
If I don't want to be in a trade union?
To have my say?

I think it do's if I am NOT having a say in my company, if I don't want to be in a hopeless trade union ?
Can't we have a works union or reps ?

[Pepper II]

Labor unions were necessary at one time. But now, at least in the US, all the fundamental requirements demanded by the early unions have been met with state or federal laws. That is issues like workplace safety, not being forced to work too many hours, etc. have been addressed by the government. Now unions only exist to protect the deadbeat employees and extort grossly inflated wages and benefits for their members at the expense of everyone who buys goods produced by them. The other more insidious actions are to further the political, and in some cases, the criminal activities of their "leadership". All one has to do is to look at the formerly thriving industrial cities of the north to see the devastating effects of these cancerous organizations. Every time you see a product which says "Made in China" unions are at least partly to blame.

[TonyBlack]

I used to think like most of the others in their anti-union opinions...until a union helped me.

I had been wrongfully terminated as per our union contract. The union held the company at fault. And after a year of argument I got my job back.

When they work, like anything, they can be truly useful.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by TonyBlack

I used to think like most of the others in their anti-union opinions...until a union helped me.

I had been wrongfully terminated as per our union contract. The union held the company at fault. And after a year of argument I got my job back.

When they work, like anything, they can be truly useful.

I am a Union member for precisely that reason.

There is a planned 4hr NHS stoppage next Monday voted on by members of Unison

I've heard there were 300,000 or so members eligible to vote and looking at their own website that seems to be borne out
UNISON is the UK's largest health union with 300,000 NHS members in England.

They say "A strong 68% voted yes for industrial action and 88% to action short of strike action in a ballot which closed on 18 September"

What they miss out is "Of those who voted"
Their website states that
Number of votes cast: 40,104
Number answering “yes” to “are you prepared to take part in a strike?”: 26,126
Number answering “no” to “are you prepared to take part in a strike?”: 12,493
Number of spoiled voting papers: 1,485

So of 300,000 eligible voters less than 10% actually voted to strike.

I hardly think that can be classed as a ringing endorsement and I will be turning up to work that day.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by TonyBlack

When they work, like anything, they can be truly useful.

That's more than fair enough, and the reason they should exist, to genuinely help a member

I can only speak of unions in my country, I spent 22 years in the car industry, sadly it's coming to an end by 2017, been on a decline for about 15 years now. The costs of making cars in Australia is astronomical. Ford, GM and Toyota have all cited expense and declining market share, the 3 of them haven't blamed unions for the costs, but the unions and government are throwing stones at each other and both have blamed each other as well as the companies.

But I was there and saw 1st hand just how expensive labor costs are here,

Just a few examples
We get 4 weeks paid annual leave, now, when leave is taken the employees get an extra 17% pay when on leave to cover any overtime they may have missed out on why holidays are not an inconvenience If you're on night shift or afternoon shift you got an extra 30% and 17.5% respectively for being on shift, that I can understand, but it was also paid when on leave, on top of the 17% just for being on leave

All electricians got an extra $35 in their pay a week above all other trades just because they're electricians

Every time we had a new enterprise agreement, a 36 hour week was on the table, always was a sticking point.

If anyone ever left, unused sick leave was paid out, sounds good, be we had idiots not wanting to use sick leave, come to work with a flu and give it to 4 or 5 others who then do take sick leave ... adding more costs,

I could go on and on,

But here's my problem, We export a lot of iron ore to Asia to make steel that ends up with their car makers, and that iron ore ends up coming back here in cheap cars that people want and buy here.....not the local products because our cars are using base models as an example, nearly twice the price

That's where unions don't look after their members, they promise to deliver all the little goddies that appeal to a member who won't look at a bigger picture of the world.

[SanteeFats]

Yes unions are great WHEN they work especially FOR their members. I worked in the US DoD for 36+ years. There is a union for Federal workers but it is pretty useless from my experience. It is even in the agreement between them and the government that the union must represent non members in disputes Why join it and pay dues if they have to help you anyway