Things Noticeable this week

[scoundrel]

Nicholas Paget-Brown, former leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council, has resigned from the post under pressure arising from the council's multiple failures around the Grenfell Tower fire. It is now being discussed whether the government will appoint Commissioners to run this council and relieve the elected councillors of their duties, on the basis that they are not performing these duties and someone has to step in and do what these people are simply not doing. The council tried to bar the public from attending its first full meeting since the fire and when the courts overturned this ban they reacted by closing the meeting instead. I agree with those who feel that it is time for a new broom at the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

Back to Post 31067:




Now it's nearly a week ago, since that tower has burned down

Is by now known, which moron approved this inflammable cladding ? Who is responsible ?



The BBC wrote: "... it would be non-compliant with the current building regulations guidance". For this reason it seems to me, the English government/parliament is out of the game - they did their duty (appending of the date of that regulations).

The owner is "Lancaster West Estate", who's management is mainly responsible for the scale of this flame-hell. Usually there is an architect needed for the planing of such an amount of work and cost for the cladding. This guy / office was also terrifying clueless about the fire-protection of such a tower building. (He/They should give back his examination !!! ).

Now to the local government (I have to admit I'm on thin ice as a foreigner):
Witch moron gave the approval at the department or local government to such a "bullshit" (-sorry) of planing ?
He is/they are in my opinion as much responsible as the owner of the house. Is it known by now ?

So I'm a bit irritated:
If it would be in Germany:
It is nearly impossible here, to set only one stone on the other without having an approval of the building supervisory board, at critically buildings also of the "fire-police" (local fire brigade). Else your risk will be up to 99%, that you can brake down all of it.
And if you are having a hundred architects, without the approval you can't be helped !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40418266

The story is still developing but as we now know, over 100 samples of cladding from over 100 council-owned high rise blocks have been laboratory tested and every single one has failed to conform with the government standard which states that cladding and exterior wall insulation should be made of non-combustible materials. I will be mildly surprised if a single sample out of over 600 buildings passes this testing. So we have established that the Grenfell Tower refurbishment was not a result of an exceptional failure but a result of a systemic failure in British building standards.

To put it simply, the government standard was not enforced and so for many years the industry has self-regulated its own standards and these standards have successfully ignored and bypassed the government's standards. For all practical purposes there are no government standards because the government does nothing to police the industry and put a stop to self-regulation which deviates from the official standard and which, by default, has become the official standard. No one in a bowler hat visits the trade bodies such as the National House Builders Council and orders them to strike down guidance which contradicts the government standard. No one closes them down if they do not instantly obey the man in the bowler hat. No one arrests their chief executives for endangering human life.

I have formed an extremely low opinion of Kensington and Chelsea Council and of their Tenants Management Organisation. But I do think they had a right to believe that if their refurbishment used materials and methods which met industry quality standards and were signed off by surveyors accordingly, that must at least mean that the building was safe. I think it was reasonable for them to think that and to expect that. The standards themselves have been weighed in the scales and found wanting. It was the responsibility of central government and the civil service to see to it that government construction industry standards were being followed. This self-evidently did not happen.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by palo5

Germany just passed a law against "fake news". Admittedly the fake news in Genesis was written about 2,700 years ago, so far as our best experts can tell, but I wonder if Germany would forbid teaching creationism on this basis

Not actually!

IMO The law does not cover religious content written 2.700 years ago, as long as they aren't being used as "Hate Content" or other criminal material (for example invocations of killing persons).

The Genesis can't hardly been taking up as "News". Even the catholic church does not hold on (here!) at the Genesis literately. They tax it as a "picture of the past" or history, replaced by the evolution theory.

So teaching the Genesis is not forbidden here as a picture of the past, if the evolution theory is mentioned in the same way.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40418266

The story is still developing but as we now know, over 100 samples of cladding from over 100 council-owned high rise blocks have been laboratory tested and every single one has failed to conform with the government standard which states that cladding and exterior wall insulation should be made of non-combustible materials. I will be mildly surprised if a single sample out of over 600 buildings passes this testing. So we have established that the Grenfell Tower refurbishment was not a result of an exceptional failure but a result of a systemic failure in British building standards.

To put it simply, the government standard was not enforced and so for many years the industry has self-regulated its own standards and these standards have successfully ignored and bypassed the government's standards. For all practical purposes there are no government standards because the government does nothing to police the industry and put a stop to self-regulation which deviates from the official standard and which, by default, has become the official standard. No one in a bowler hat visits the trade bodies such as the National House Builders Council and orders them to strike down guidance which contradicts the government standard. No one closes them down if they do not instantly obey the man in the bowler hat. No one arrests their chief executives for endangering human life.

I have formed an extremely low opinion of Kensington and Chelsea Council and of their Tenants Management Organisation. But I do think they had a right to believe that if their refurbishment used materials and methods which met industry quality standards and were signed off by surveyors accordingly, that must at least mean that the building was safe. I think it was reasonable for them to think that and to expect that. The standards themselves have been weighed in the scales and found wanting. It was the responsibility of central government and the civil service to see to it that government construction industry standards were being followed. This self-evidently did not happen.

Thank you for this post/information.

The English government/parliament did their duty of implementing building standards years ago (I think it had been in the end of the 80s).
So it is the duty of the following administrating bodies of watching/controlling the implementing of standards. The administration bodies are composed with persons ! If those "persons" having not reacted (or can't prove it) on this "new standards", are duty of involuntary homicide IMO in the concrete case.
If the English justice is doing their duty, they will face a suit like the owner of the building.

So it is not satisfying, that (the BBC and other media) now are going to soft-wash this situation of building, not to take this -former new- standards too literally - in the face of the dead.

Main reason for the fire was the cladding, but of course not the lonely reason. It was the poorly fire protection at all.

BTW: we are having one (at least !) similar case of high tower cladding in Wuppertal too. The cladding was not the same - the heat protecting of the cladding was on wooden base and not with plastics like the English - but still was inflammable. The tower got cleared immediately, while the cladding is dismantled.
It's not mentioned in the report, when the tower was build.




EDIT:
A unified comment to the report(-s) of the majority of the posts was: "Who has this authorised ? (at the construction of the building).

[diamelsx]

BEXAR COUNTY, Texas (KTRK) -- Dozens of venomous snakes went missing after a rollover crash in Bexar County on Thursday.

But emergency services have since recaptured 23 of them.

The snakes escaped when a minivan carrying the snakes blew a tire, causing it to roll over.

The driver of the van and his 9-year-old grandson were trapped inside, along with a baby alligator and a tortoise. But somehow the snakes managed to slither away.

A local emergency services responder shared numerous photos of the incident to Twitter. The photos show emergency services personnel inspecting the scene and collecting loose snakes.
source

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

Not actually!

IMO The law does not cover religious content written 2.700 years ago, as long as they aren't being used as "Hate Content" or other criminal material (for example invocations of killing persons)

Interesting you should mention "hate content" and "killing people". Very interesting, actually

From Genesis it's only a few pages to the Book of Leviticus, which gives laws of the chosen people. In Lev 20:13 is states that men engaging in homosexual sodomy are committing "an abomination" and "they shall be put to death". Not even Rabbis deny it

And yes, we know how the Bundestag voted less than a week ago -- clearly they have a different view

Take it as you will, Kumpel

[CARLTON BROWN]

Originally Posted by anothercustom

No, there shouldn't be official statements debunking fake news / conspiracy theroies. Releasing official statements will just give the people who peddle this crap the exposure and attention they crave.

I'll do my best not to be rude about your rather strange outburst as there does appear to be some substance to this story, which I'm not saying is true or false, but certainly find interesting, especially as officialdom will regularly mislead the public when the need arises.

As a citizen of this supposed democracy, I believe that I am perfectly entitled to ask questions and receive honest answers from the establishment. What's wrong with that?

You really should make it clear that it's simply your opinion that this is crap being peddled by people seeking attention. How do you know this? Do you have some expert inside information you would care to share with us?

[mizlaplan]

re. the whole circumcision debate.
The foreskin is there for a reason.
Its there to protect the glans.
Any poor sod who's been circumcised has a willy which has been de-sensitised due to the glans constantly rubbing and chafing against his underwear (or trousers if he's gone commando).
I can't remember where I read this but there is one small good point to the whole de-sensitised thing.
The chap can last longer ....but..
Only because they're getting a lot less stimulation than un-mutilated chaps get.
Say no to MGM

[seany65]

Originally Posted by Devius

I recall a VEF member warned recently that with the populist mood in the UK at present, we could find ourselves one day with a government that would make UKIP look like radical lefties (sorry I forgot the thread).

Watching the antics of the Tories and Labour on the news today, I'm thinking that day is looking more likely...

Can I just point out that a 'populist' is just someone who wishes to represent the interests of the majority of people. They ain't right-wing fanatics.

'Populism' is not fascism, racism, or other fanatical right-wing stuff.

It's just something that the majority of political parties say they aspire to: representing the inetrests of the majority of the people in their country.

[anothercustom]

Originally Posted by CARLTON BROWN

You really should make it clear that it's simply your opinion that this is crap being peddled by people seeking attention

I'm not in the habit of prefixing my posts with "In my opinion" or "IMHO". Anything I type here is my personal opinion. The Internet is a breeding ground for false information and lies. I just want the the government, emergency services and all other relevant authorities to deal with the facts.