Questions for our American friends

[Nobody1]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

I saw an article that stated that further concentrating ourselves in cities while maintaining or expanding agricultural and wild spaces may enable us to keep current population levels while stabilizing the climate. Others have proposed dialing us back to the 2.5 to 3 billion range which will prove unacceptable to those marked for immediate extinction.

Capitalism needs economic growth through steadily increasing consumption. Put simply, capitalism needs population growth. No population growth, no capitalism.

[iFluke]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

Capitalism needs economic growth through steadily increasing consumption. Put simply, capitalism needs population growth. No population growth, no capitalism.

Yep someone has to pay the interest

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

Capitalism needs economic growth through steadily increasing consumption. Put simply, capitalism needs population growth. No population growth, no capitalism.

Human nature is selfish and greedy. If the population stayed the same, we would still consume more resources.

[Nobody1]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Human nature is selfish and greedy. If the population stayed the same, we would still consume more resources.

I only eat until I am full.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

I only eat until I am full.

So you look kind of like this???

[c-cat]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

Capitalism needs economic growth through steadily increasing consumption. Put simply, capitalism needs population growth. No population growth, no capitalism.

This is a rather simplistic view and not entirely correct. You are assuming that growth is derived from selling the same or more to more consumers. This is not always the case. It may have been true prior to the industrial revolution and prior to the information revolution, but it is no longer being accepted as a rule.

There are two types of growth. The first is similar to your supposition in that we use more resources to churn out more goods for more people. As you implied, this can't last forever - either we run out of resources or we run out of consumers. The second type of growth relies on the creation of efficiency as the ultimate value proposition. The goal is to use the same or fewer resources to produce the same or greater value.

Here is an example. The iPhone conceivably uses the fewer, the same, or more resources than the typical phone. However, the value provided in terms of efficiency is exponential. Before, to surf the internet, I would have to go sit at a desk and use my computer. To bank, I would have to stop at a branch. To shop I would have to go to a store. With each task, I give up the opportunity to do something else (work or leisure). But with an iPhone, I can do all these tasks while not sacrificing that potential opportunity. The iPhone has made me more efficient. As long as capitalism strives towards more efficiency, growth can continue. The limits of "efficient" capitalism are not yet known.

On a related note, you might wish to research "Norman Borlaug". During the 50s, 60s and 70s, it was believed that the world population would exceed the available food supply. Mr. Borlaug, and agronomist, eventually developed dwarf wheat which could be grown in greater amounts and led to a revolution in agriculture. Simply put, technology constantly extends the sustainability of resources.

[Roubignol]

NHL Playoffs coming.

So, according to you, which team will win the Stanley Cup this year?

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by c-cat

Here is an example. The iPhone conceivably uses the fewer, the same, or more resources than the typical phone. However, the value provided in terms of efficiency is exponential. Before, to surf the internet, I would have to go sit at a desk and use my computer. To bank, I would have to stop at a branch. To shop I would have to go to a store. With each task, I give up the opportunity to do something else (work or leisure). But with an iPhone, I can do all these tasks while not sacrificing that potential opportunity. The iPhone has made me more efficient. As long as capitalism strives towards more efficiency, growth can continue. The limits of "efficient" capitalism are not yet known.

As an added benefit, both iPhones and Android devices contain easily exploited security flaws to enable hackers to obtain bank and personal information. The fun is just beginning.

[Jenny48549]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

As an added benefit, both iPhones and Android devices contain easily exploited security flaws to enable hackers to obtain bank and personal information. The fun is just beginning.

Contrary to popular belief, every operating system out there is hackable in one way or another at any time.

The amount of CERT alerts I get in one week regarding software security flaws and exploits sometimes should be enough to make anyone who uses these devices or computers for online backing, etc to think twice... and these are the "known" flaws

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by Jenny48549

Contrary to popular belief, every operating system out there is hackable in one way or another at any time.

The amount of CERT alerts I get in one week regarding software security flaws and exploits sometimes should be enough to make anyone who uses these devices or computers for online backing, etc to think twice... and these are the "known" flaws

Which is why I am in no hurry to download my bank and credit card apps to my smartphone. It is bad enough to use the desktop in my apartment, which requires a password to access, an industrial strength firewall, and unique passwords for the bank and each credit card. Since my ID info has been hacked multiple times from multiple sources, I am assuming that I am too poor for the bad guys to bother with.