The Second World War.

[Thinkwell]

I was puzzled by something I read on this thread a few months ago. In Post 8027 Dr Pepper wrote: "IIRC it is only a few years ago - 2010 - that Germany paid the last instalment of the WW1 reparations." I couldn't believe that was correct, but I think I have now found out what happened.

I read in World War Two, a short book by Norman Stone: "the final payments (debts taken on in the 1920s to pay the original sums) would only be made in 2010."

I think one can deduce that the Third Reich would not pay the debts, divided Germany could not and would not, but unified Germany was willing to settle the accounts; and I assume that the German government eventually reached a settlement with the banks and financial institutions concerned. So the payments made in 2010 were, strictly speaking, not reparations, but the repayment of money that had been borrowed in order to make reparations. This may sound like a quibble.


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Just for amusement, here is a Churchill anecdote that Stone tells.

In spring 1944, contemplating the run-down of British power, he became depressed, holding his head in his hands. His wife, Clementine, said, "Cheer up, just think how Mussolini is feeling now." Churchill answered, "At least he got to shoot his son-in-law" (Mussolini having put Galeazzo Ciano on trial for treason at Verona in January).

(However, I'm not sure that Churchill would have used the slangy phrase "he got to".)

[Ernesto75]

Modern Germany also paid reparations for WW II but they did it in nature.

For example they provided some national armies with trucks made by Mercedes.
That was clever: while they paid reparations they helped their economy at the same time.

[Dr Pepper]

Thinkwell's point above is technically correct-however a perusal of the wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_reparations

reveals that the issue is far more complex and convoluted, and has been debated, negotiated, renegotiated, abrogated and a heap of other adjectives -many times-and more importantly, whilst we think of reparations purely in $ terms in actual fact they encompassed monetary payments, raw materials, land and territories, and in the case of WW2-intellectual property. See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_reparations

...and note that several countries-Greece and Poland in particular-do not consider matters settled even 70+ years on...

[scoundrel]

The armed trawler HMT Northern Gem gave distinguished service in WW2. I mentioned in an earlier post how this small vessel found the crippled and sinking destroyer HMS Achates in the Arctic darkness after she had been fatally hit by surface fire from the heavy cruiser KMS Hipper. This was at the tail end of the Battle of the Barents Sea on Christmas Day 1942, but the captain and crew of HMT Northern Gem had no way to know that the German squadron were retreating and every reason to expect that they were in range and about to resume fire. They rescued every surviving man from the sinking destroyer, not one left behind, and risked being attacked by German units which could have sunk HMT Northern Gem with one hit had they chosen to remain in contact with the British side. It was an act of conspicuous bravery which saved 76 men from certain death. The Gem's CO. Lt Mullender was awarded a DSC for this really splendid act, and Petty Officer Sid Carslake, his coxwain, whose superb seamanship made the transfer of men from deck to deck physically possible, was awarded the DSM. These medals did not come in a packet of cornflakes; any man with those letters after his name was a man of respect.

HMT Northern Gem was built in Bremerhaven and handed over to Britain as part of the Great War reparations.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

China is still a slave empire; the trouble is that we support slavery there by buying their exports. Here is an example of where Max is right; global capitalism is a disguised fascist system in that genuine competition and free enterprise is crowded out when slave-labour goods are allowed to be traded. Slavery also includes child labour and work done by workforces who have no protection form exploitation at all. So our economies live on slavery as well.

The struggle against fascism never stops. But it will not be won by people waving red flags and denouncing capitalism. It is really being fought by anyone who stands up for human rights, justice and the rule of law.

Originally Posted by Ennath

February 22, 1946
United States, Policy George Kennan, in his Long Telegram, outlines his interpretation of Soviet objectives. It states that the Soviets see themselves at eternal war with capitalism, that social democracy is perceived as an enemy, that the Soviets will use controllable Marxists in the West, and that much of the USSR’s expansionism is based in traditional Russian xenophobia.

We must never forget that American and European shareholders indirectly financed Adolf Hitler to reach the power.

Capitalism financed Nazism.

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

We must never forget that American and European shareholders indirectly financed Adolf Hitler to reach the power.

Capitalism financed Nazism.

Not really the place?

[scoundrel]

I suppose the relationship between the Nazis and the financial systems of the Allied countries is "on topic" to a certain extent at least. For example it is will known that IBM assisted the Nazis in developing card sorting machines which were then used to identify Jewish households using pre-Nazi census data. It is not very likely that the Nazis explained to IBM what the purpose was.

As I recall from the little bit I have ever read on the topic, Nazi Germany was a closed economy. If you exported goods to Nazi Germany you were most unlikely to be reimbursed in hard currency; you would be paid in Reichmarks, negotiable only inside the Third Reich, and encouraged to spend them on German manufactured goods, export the goods, and convert them into hard currency elsewhere. Thus Germany avoided selling RM to buy dollars etc and paid for her imports in kind rather than in cash.

After the calamity of the Wiemar Republic hyperinflation, Germany controlled her economy rather carefully. One of the things she did was to avoid large scale borrowing on international markets. This would beg the questions about what she was spending the money on and drawn attention to the rearmament program before Germany was ready to be open and defiant about this. Instead, Germany printed money (we call it "Quantitative Easing" nowadays) but did this covertly. The Reichsbank did not print RMs. A "private" company was created called Metallurgische Forschungsgesellschaft (Metallurgical Research Corporation) and this company issued promissory notes, backed by the Reichsbank, referred to in common negotiations as "Mefo Bills". It was a device to enable the Reichsbank to lend to the Central Government but not be seen to do it; basically a fraud to conceal public borrowing. The author of this scheme was the then serving Reichsbank president, Hjalmar Schacht.

Nazi finances were built on fiction and lies. It was not "capitalism" which paid for Nazism, because Nazism was never paid for; it was all done on the never-never and of course by the time serious paying was needed, Germany was looting other countries and could pay her bills by stealing.

[Mal Hombre]

"It is not very likely that the Nazis explained to IBM what the purpose was."
The likes of Siemens have no such defence,They willingly if not eagerly employed slave labourers from the camps,Paying the princely sum of 3RM per inmate to the SS.The SS also harvested valuables and saleable items from camp arrivals for future resale.So,It might well be argued that the Holocaust was run on a capitalist basis.

[haroldeye]

Nazi finances were built on fiction and lies. It was not "capitalism" which paid for Nazism, because Nazism was never paid for; it was all done on the never-never and of course by the time serious paying was needed, Germany was looting other countries and could pay her bills by stealing.

Remember NAZI was a shortened form of National Socialist Workers Party. That would explain the never never bit.
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[crinolynne]

Last week, my dad received the legion of honour at a ceremony at the French Consulate in Edinburgh. He was day 3 at Normandy and the French decided to honour those who were part of Overlord.