Sport or just a skill??

**SanteeFats** · July 23rd, 2016, 03:13 PM

Thought it might be fun to discuss wither a "sport" is really a sport requiring athleticism or just what I term a skill.
Here are some of my opinions:

Sport: American football, ya'll's football, rugby, tennis, etc.

NOT a sport: golf, horse shoes, bowling (US), shooting matches, lake fishing contests, etc.

Let's go for it and I look forward to seeing events here I did not know were held.
Just remember to keep it semi-polite okay??

**philll_77** · July 23rd, 2016, 06:52 PM

Maybe it comes down to stamina. I've done a lot of target shooting, mainly rifle, and lying down in an unnatural position for 30 mins can do odd things to your back. When your arms get tired, they start to shake, only a tiny bit, but at 3 or 500 yards you've got no chance.

Thorpe Cloud in Derbyshire, on a nice day in June, lovely!
On a drizzly day in February, WHY!

**SanteeFats** · July 23rd, 2016, 07:34 PM

I guess I need to clarify what I mean about sport or not.

I mean a sport as an even where you have to be physically able to do it.
IMO shooting events can be done by most no matter their physical condition. I know as I placed 55 out of 5,000 years ago. I was not slim at all.

Golf to me is not a sport but a skill event. Look at how many overweight pros there are and they still walk the 6-8,000 yard courses.

Now there are many events that I accord the sports name too but not something that just takes skill.

**tygrkhat40** · July 24th, 2016, 04:02 PM

To me, a sport is something that has an objective, keeps an accounting system and have some sort of physical activity. By my definition, that would make golf and bowling sports. But, for the exception to the rule, racing (foot, swim, horse, auto, boat or plane) is a sport despite having no accounting system for individual races.

I've never been able to place things like figure skating, gymnastics or synchronized swimming into a category. They have accounting systems and a great deal of physical activity, but they are completely subjective. How many times did we hear about "vindicitive" Russian judges at the Olympics or other international competitions?

That also brings up the question of if you participate in a sport, you are an "athlete." As Santee points out, one does not to be in peak physical condition to be a pro golfer. Nor do I think you need to be in top shape to be a NASCAR or Indy car driver. I admit, they subject themselves to quite a bit of stress with what they do, but it doesn't compare with those who pursue a more physical sport.

Former MLB player John Kruk was once upbraided about smoking by a woman at an off-season event. She said he was an athlete and needed to be a role model. His reply that he was a ballplayer, not an athlete.

George Carlin opined that a sport needed a ball. Therefore in his mind, hockey wasn't a sport, but three activities in one: ice skating, pushing the puck around with sticks and beating the crap out of each other.

**pharoahegypt** · July 24th, 2016, 05:02 PM

not debating every nuance of what is or isn't a sport; but for me the likes of Darts is more a 'pub game' than a true sport. Very little physical effort compared to skill in the game; hence why the likes of fay-boy Phil Taylor has won so often. (I'm a porker myself, so can call him that)

**SanteeFats** · July 24th, 2016, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

To me, a sport is something that has an objective, keeps an accounting system and have some sort of physical activity. By my definition, that would make golf and bowling sports. But, for the exception to the rule, racing (foot, swim, horse, auto, boat or plane) is a sport despite having no accounting system for individual races.

I've never been able to place things like figure skating, gymnastics or synchronized swimming into a category. They have accounting systems and a great deal of physical activity, but they are completely subjective. How many times did we hear about "vindicitive" Russian judges at the Olympics or other international competitions?

That also brings up the question of if you participate in a sport, you are an "athlete." As Santee points out, one does not to be in peak physical condition to be a pro golfer. Nor do I think you need to be in top shape to be a NASCAR or Indy car driver. I admit, they subject themselves to quite a bit of stress with what they do, but it doesn't compare with those who pursue a more physical sport.

Nice comments. My feedback. Any event that requires a participant to be fit is a sport and the players are athletes, IMO. So golf, bowling, darts and such is not a sport. Track and field is mostly sports to me. A couple I am not sure of (javelin)?
Judges have been notorious for their decisions but that does not make the participants any less of an athlete.
Hockey I am not sure about only from the standpoint of the frequent line changes which makes me think how fit can they be if they get that tired that fast.
Don't have an opinion about racing.

**SanteeFats** · July 24th, 2016, 05:48 PM

OHH another thought. Yes I do have one from time to time. Pool, snooker and such are not a sport in the least.

~~bigtrain45~~ · July 24th, 2016, 10:33 PM

I think to be a real sport there needs to be a scoreboard, not a group of judges. Baseball, football, basketball, hockey, soccer, tennis, and to a lesser degree golf. Golf may not require the same endurance levels as some others, but the skills required to hit the ball correctly, make it hook or fade as needed, and impart sufficient backspin to make it stay on the green, are special, rare, athletic skills, at least at the level of people who win or contend for wins in major tournaments. Track and field events, swimming, volleyball, water polo, team handball, and various other primarily Olympic sports also qualify, as does cricket, though it is alien to me personally. As to judged events, like figure skating, gymnastics, etc., clearly the participants are athletes who have developed a variety of special skills allowing them to perform at very high levels. There is a lot of debate about race car drivers. I believe they are athletes. They endure very high temperatures in the cars, have remarkable reflexes, and hand/eye/foot coordination allowing them to control very powerful cars at the limit. In my life I have had the experience of seeing some amazing things done by pro athletes that show how different from the rest of us they are. Many years ago, at a Montreal-Washington hockey game, during the pregame warmup, Canadiens goalie Ken Dryden had some friends sitting behind his goal. His teammates were lined up along the blue line firing slap shots at him, at speeds around 100mph. Dryden was deftly playing them with his stick in such a way that the pucks came softly off the stick, fluttered up over the glass, landing in his friends laps. One or two would have been impressive enough, but he did at least 15 shots in a row that way. At a pro tennis match back in the 70s' between Ilie Nastase and Sherwood Stewart, Nastase hit a serve that was long, and Stewart blasted it back, coming right to Nastase. Ilie stuck his racket out in front of his face, and actually caught the ball on the strings of his racket, and dropped it into his hand. Lastly, during practice for the US Grand Prix at Watkins Glen in 1980, Didier Pironi lost control of his Ligier going through the esses. The car spun 360 degrees, then started its second full spin. Pironi cocked his head, waited for the car to come around, and as it was finishing its second spin, he dumped the clutch, grabbed a gear, and roared away at just the right moment to keep going down the track. Like I say, the truly elite athletes are completely different people from you and I.

**tygrkhat40** · July 25th, 2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Any event that requires a participant to be fit is a sport and the players are athletes, IMO.

Then we can eliminate baseball as a sport as you put it. Sure you've had people like Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders and Danny Ainge who were tremendous athletes and played baseball. But then you've got John Kruk, Cecil Fielder and his son Prince and Terry Forster, who David Letterman called "a fat tub of goo," who excelled on the diamond. In the 30's and 40's one of the top catchers was Ernie Lombardi. He was so slow as a runner that it was said he could turn a triple into a single.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Judges have been notorious for their decisions but that does not make the participants any less of an athlete.

Oh, absolutely. I'm sure Torvill and Dean were in much better shape than the aforementioned ballplayers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Hockey I am not sure about only from the standpoint of the frequent line changes which makes me think how fit can they be if they get that tired that fast.

It partly has to do with fatigue, especially late in the game, but also with strategy. If one team is keeping up the pressure in the opponent's end, the defending team will clear the puck, resulting in call of icing. The team that iced the puck cannot substitute players, while their opponent can. In this instance you want to put fresh(er) players on the ice hoping the tired players make a mistake.

**whop** · July 25th, 2016, 07:09 PM

In tennis they spend most of the time studying balls, kicking the racket, and sit in the shade with a cold drink. Not really what I consider sport. I do watch the ladies sometimes, though.
Sailing, shooting, horseriding, bow and arrow, and jumping into water are not my idea of sports either. Maybe that's why they call it the olympic games, not sports?

July 23rd, 2016, 03:13 PM	#1
SanteeFats Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 60,833 Thanks: 281,852 Thanked 814,070 Times in 60,881 Posts	Sport or just a skill?? Thought it might be fun to discuss wither a "sport" is really a sport requiring athleticism or just what I term a skill. Here are some of my opinions: Sport: American football, ya'll's football, rugby, tennis, etc. NOT a sport: golf, horse shoes, bowling (US), shooting matches, lake fishing contests, etc. Let's go for it and I look forward to seeing events here I did not know were held. Just remember to keep it semi-polite okay??

July 24th, 2016, 04:02 PM	#4
tygrkhat40 Long Suffering Bills Fan Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The City of Good Neighbors Posts: 9,669 Thanks: 304,243 Thanked 152,629 Times in 9,629 Posts	To me, a sport is something that has an objective, keeps an accounting system and have some sort of physical activity. By my definition, that would make golf and bowling sports. But, for the exception to the rule, racing (foot, swim, horse, auto, boat or plane) is a sport despite having no accounting system for individual races. I've never been able to place things like figure skating, gymnastics or synchronized swimming into a category. They have accounting systems and a great deal of physical activity, but they are completely subjective. How many times did we hear about "vindicitive" Russian judges at the Olympics or other international competitions? That also brings up the question of if you participate in a sport, you are an "athlete." As Santee points out, one does not to be in peak physical condition to be a pro golfer. Nor do I think you need to be in top shape to be a NASCAR or Indy car driver. I admit, they subject themselves to quite a bit of stress with what they do, but it doesn't compare with those who pursue a more physical sport. Former MLB player John Kruk was once upbraided about smoking by a woman at an off-season event. She said he was an athlete and needed to be a role model. His reply that he was a ballplayer, not an athlete. George Carlin opined that a sport needed a ball. Therefore in his mind, hockey wasn't a sport, but three activities in one: ice skating, pushing the puck around with sticks and beating the crap out of each other. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

July 24th, 2016, 05:02 PM	#5
pharoahegypt Vintage Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Middle England Posts: 4,491 Thanks: 10,176 Thanked 43,619 Times in 4,154 Posts	not debating every nuance of what is or isn't a sport; but for me the likes of Darts is more a 'pub game' than a true sport. Very little physical effort compared to skill in the game; hence why the likes of fay-boy Phil Taylor has won so often. (I'm a porker myself, so can call him that) __________________ Arguing with a intelligent person is hard; but arguing with a stupid person is impossible!

July 23rd, 2016, 06:52 PM	#2
philll_77 Vintage Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Beasley Street Posts: 2,445 Thanks: 43,824 Thanked 29,606 Times in 2,443 Posts	Maybe it comes down to stamina. I've done a lot of target shooting, mainly rifle, and lying down in an unnatural position for 30 mins can do odd things to your back. When your arms get tired, they start to shake, only a tiny bit, but at 3 or 500 yards you've got no chance. Thorpe Cloud in Derbyshire, on a nice day in June, lovely! On a drizzly day in February, WHY!

July 23rd, 2016, 07:34 PM	#3
SanteeFats Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 60,833 Thanks: 281,852 Thanked 814,070 Times in 60,881 Posts	I guess I need to clarify what I mean about sport or not. I mean a sport as an even where you have to be physically able to do it. IMO shooting events can be done by most no matter their physical condition. I know as I placed 55 out of 5,000 years ago. I was not slim at all. Golf to me is not a sport but a skill event. Look at how many overweight pros there are and they still walk the 6-8,000 yard courses. Now there are many events that I accord the sports name too but not something that just takes skill.

July 24th, 2016, 05:48 PM	#7
SanteeFats Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 60,833 Thanks: 281,852 Thanked 814,070 Times in 60,881 Posts	OHH another thought. Yes I do have one from time to time. Pool, snooker and such are not a sport in the least.

July 24th, 2016, 10:33 PM	#8
~~bigtrain45~~ Banned! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Savannah GA Posts: 16,142 Thanks: 47,756 Thanked 215,718 Times in 16,027 Posts	I think to be a real sport there needs to be a scoreboard, not a group of judges. Baseball, football, basketball, hockey, soccer, tennis, and to a lesser degree golf. Golf may not require the same endurance levels as some others, but the skills required to hit the ball correctly, make it hook or fade as needed, and impart sufficient backspin to make it stay on the green, are special, rare, athletic skills, at least at the level of people who win or contend for wins in major tournaments. Track and field events, swimming, volleyball, water polo, team handball, and various other primarily Olympic sports also qualify, as does cricket, though it is alien to me personally. As to judged events, like figure skating, gymnastics, etc., clearly the participants are athletes who have developed a variety of special skills allowing them to perform at very high levels. There is a lot of debate about race car drivers. I believe they are athletes. They endure very high temperatures in the cars, have remarkable reflexes, and hand/eye/foot coordination allowing them to control very powerful cars at the limit. In my life I have had the experience of seeing some amazing things done by pro athletes that show how different from the rest of us they are. Many years ago, at a Montreal-Washington hockey game, during the pregame warmup, Canadiens goalie Ken Dryden had some friends sitting behind his goal. His teammates were lined up along the blue line firing slap shots at him, at speeds around 100mph. Dryden was deftly playing them with his stick in such a way that the pucks came softly off the stick, fluttered up over the glass, landing in his friends laps. One or two would have been impressive enough, but he did at least 15 shots in a row that way. At a pro tennis match back in the 70s' between Ilie Nastase and Sherwood Stewart, Nastase hit a serve that was long, and Stewart blasted it back, coming right to Nastase. Ilie stuck his racket out in front of his face, and actually caught the ball on the strings of his racket, and dropped it into his hand. Lastly, during practice for the US Grand Prix at Watkins Glen in 1980, Didier Pironi lost control of his Ligier going through the esses. The car spun 360 degrees, then started its second full spin. Pironi cocked his head, waited for the car to come around, and as it was finishing its second spin, he dumped the clutch, grabbed a gear, and roared away at just the right moment to keep going down the track. Like I say, the truly elite athletes are completely different people from you and I.

July 25th, 2016, 07:09 PM	#10
whop Vintage Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 326 Thanks: 6,898 Thanked 3,278 Times in 317 Posts	In tennis they spend most of the time studying balls, kicking the racket, and sit in the shade with a cold drink. Not really what I consider sport. I do watch the ladies sometimes, though. Sailing, shooting, horseriding, bow and arrow, and jumping into water are not my idea of sports either. Maybe that's why they call it the olympic games, not sports?