The Football Thread

[ultimatewarlord]

Originally Posted by pierrelm

Butland to Anfield next season, or will Klopp adopt the one-eyed "if I play them in a red shirt they are good enough" cloak of delusion previously worn by Wenger?

Real may have to lose both Bale and Ronaldo before next season due to an eye-watering £600m+ of debt. Whatever happened to financial fair play? Will they sign the loathesome self centred Neymar? It's a different game entirely at that heady level...

Back in the Galactico's days Real ran up debts of £200 million. The Madrid council bought their training facility off them for £200 million and then allowed Real to carry on using the facility.

[victor meldrew]

Originally Posted by Markus R

Well said. I find the problem with Liverpool/Klopp's style of playing is there is no plan B. When Salah went off Liverpool's game went downhill. Sergio Ramos is a thug; a very effective thug at that but still a thug (although I'm not sure the tackle on Salah was among his worst. He just seemed to fall on him with both locking arms). There was always the problem of Salah getting injured - the difference being Real could bring on a player of Bale's quality while Liverpool couldn't.

While Kareless in goal was abysmal, I cannot help thinking how Bale had so much space to execute the overhead kick. If a defender would have been close to him and tried heading the ball a free kick against Bale would almost certainly been given for high kicking. As you say Buttsie the defence has cost Liverpool heavily for about a decade.

Liverpool need a defender of Ramos ilk. Teams who win trophies normally have a defender with the needed thug in them. Classical defenders but not afraid to take a player out, just a few who spring to mind, Passerella, Koeman, & Vidic. The Germans have had too many to mention, probably why they are so successful.

[Markus R]

Originally Posted by victor meldrew

Liverpool need a defender of Ramos ilk. Teams who win trophies normally have a defender with the needed thug in them. Classical defenders but not afraid to take a player out, just a few who spring to mind, Passerella, Koeman, & Vidic. The Germans have had too many to mention, probably why they are so successful.

Yes definitely. I think the greatest combination I've ever seen was Scirea and Gentile for Juve and Italy - Scirea was the class sweeper and Gentile the stopper, although I'm not sure how long Gentile would last in today's game

[pierrelm]

Originally Posted by Markus R

Yes definitely. I think the greatest combination I've ever seen was Scirea and Gentile for Juve and Italy - Scirea was the class sweeper and Gentile the stopper, although I'm not sure how long Gentile would last in today's game

AC Milan 1991-92 are about as good as I can recall - two names to frighten any forward: 'Franco' and 'Baresi'.

Aided and abetted by Allessandro Costacurta with the immaculate Paolo Maldini plus Mauro Tassotti... you need to be that good, or that cynical to succeed and LFC did remarkably well to get as far as they did with the players they have. Real, on the other hand are the best of a slew of decent but not outstanding European clubs.

[george anson]

Defenders today could learn a thing or two about positioning and anticipation from those of an earlier generation.

I am amazed by the number of times they go to ground prematurely, tackle with the wrong leg or especially fullbacks allow so much space to the wide players.

However players like Gentile were simply thugs and would and should not last long in the game whereas Scirea and Baresi for example were masters of anticipation and reading the game, easing forwards off the ball and showing the utmost composure under pressure.

That said I have precious little affection for Real Madrid and Ramos gets away with many things. A very snide character. Klopp is well aware of the need for a new keeper given his other two Bogdan and Mignolet also make catastrophic blunders. However some of the vitriol given to Karius on social media as in wanting his children to contract cancer is disgusting.

It's only a game after all. You win and lose as a team and supporters although try telling that to some of the Sporting Lisbon fans as well.

We have signed Ben Wilmot. The chap wanted first team football and felt he would have more of a chance with us than Tottenham or Arsenal. I like the way Pozzo is building an English core at the club with Chalobah and Hughes and feel both are unlucky to miss out on Russia thanks to injuries over almost the entire season for Chalobah and Hughes for several months.

While there are established four favourites for the World Cup the dark horses look to be shuffling their cards and the next three weeks of preparation will be crucial. I am following Argentina and Sampaoli is experimenting with differing defensive line ups. A back three, four or five. What seems consistent is he will play two out wide Pavon and Meza looking favourites for these roles (di Maria relegated to an impact role) with Messi and Aguero (who is looking sharp in training) upfront.

Hopefully Lo Celso also makes the starting line up in a central role but I think a crucial miss will be capable defensive midfielders. Sampaoli has gone with Biglia and Mascherano and perhaps Banega could fill in as well. But he has omitted Asascibar who has been outstanding in the Bundesliga. A little pocket rocket and dynamo at covering ground, making interceptions and tackles he is reminiscent of an Argentine Kante and is an incredible omission while Battaglia and young Santiago Caseres of Racing de Avalleneda should have been looked at. Caseres is probably part of the exciting new generation of players coming through post World Cup.

For once River Plate are not producing the youth they normally do but other clubs under the wise tutelage of managers like Gabriel Heinze, Ariel Holan and Eduardo Coudet are starting to produce a conveyor of immense promise.

[pierrelm]

Originally Posted by george anson

Defenders today could learn a thing or two about positioning and anticipation from those of an earlier generation.

I am amazed by the number of times they go to ground prematurely, tackle with the wrong leg or especially fullbacks allow so much space to the wide players.

... I am following Argentina and Sampaoli is experimenting with differing defensive line ups. A back three, four or five.

You've described Phil Jones perfectly. As for fullbacks, they rely on pace as a substitute for ability and judgement - Kyle Walker (as someone rightly observed on here, a modern Glenn Johnson) has the ability to be caught gawping, out of position, yet this gets conveniently glossed over.

Some of my favourite players to watch plied their trade in Italy in that remarkable period so well covered over here by Football Italia. As well as the previously- mentioned Maldini, I liked Benarrivo (Parma left back) who could scarcely get a look in in the Italian side, for obvious reasons, and my favourite of the lot was a team-mate of his for a while: Lilian Thuram.
Modern coaches might do worse than play videos of him playing either as a fullback or a central defender to show not only is defending an art but one which can be accomplished with style.

As for Argentina - isn't the core problem with their defence that no matter how they set themselves up, they are notably pedestrian?

[Meini Again]

THANK YOU

[footstep]

Originally Posted by victor meldrew

most teams are built from the back, Liverpool start up front, then midfield and hope that is enough to protect the defence. Umpteen years on and the same old problems keep resurfacing, dodgy keeper, leaky back four, reliance on one or two players, no strength in depth and an inability to put teams away. Maybe one day someone at LFC will work it out.


As for Real Madrid three on the bounce is some achievement in this day and age, Could they repeat the first five? The debt will no doubt be taken care of by the state or Santander bank.

Problem here is deeper.
Real means uefa new rules: MONEY. Point.
I was born in 66 and saw "Champions cup" where real league champion were in competition. Now the 3,3 4 of the finishing league are in in.
MONEY.

Maybe one day all will be as it must be.
I had a dream :


World cup soon....


And Qatar , the land of our thousand football dream too 2022.
Life is beautiful.

[buttsie]

Originally Posted by Markus R

Well said. I find the problem with Liverpool/Klopp's style of playing is there is no plan B. When Salah went off Liverpool's game went downhill. Sergio Ramos is a thug; a very effective thug at that but still a thug (although I'm not sure the tackle on Salah was among his worst. He just seemed to fall on him with both locking arms). There was always the problem of Salah getting injured - the difference being Real could bring on a player of Bale's quality while Liverpool couldn't.

While Kareless in goal was abysmal, I cannot help thinking how Bale had so much space to execute the overhead kick. If a defender would have been close to him and tried heading the ball a free kick against Bale would almost certainly have been given for high kicking. As you say Buttsie the defence has cost Liverpool heavily for about a decade.

Liverpool only need revisit Real Madrids awful period in Europe in the 00s
2004-2008 and see what you shouldnt do.

Even with big names like Ronaldo , Figo , Zidane they regularly got knocked out
round of 16 and a few QFs because they couldnt defend.

[Motorboater]

I'm sure the Liverpool fans are nice people if you got to know them personally...