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Old 10-19-2018, 11:42 AM   #2371
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It really is setting one's self up for failure to have an expectation that it is possible to have an intelligent debate with a bunch of half educated perverts on a porn site.
At least on the internet, the worst that comes from the sacred cow wars is excessive wear and tear on computer keyboards.

If E and xyz met in real life, and E demanded to have his cousin's death explained and xyz said it was for the good of the people and Communist society then I expect that particular conversation would end with a bout of fisticuffs.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:04 PM   #2372
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If E and xyz met in real life, and E demanded to have his cousin's death explained
I wouldn't bother actually I don't need to see or hear bullshit, again reason being my cousin died in a Communist State, read here time and time again when the thread drifted from Communism, to Socialism then Anarchism and any and all combinations of those and the contradictions that come with the posts, yet I cast my mind back to the opening post of this thread and have a good look at which country is mentioned and it's form of Government The thread became an excuse for why Communism didn't work, apologetic for it's real life working and dreams of how it could yet truth couldn't be accepted.

Opening post in thread, just read it.
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:42 PM   #2373
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Everything you say is true, I cannot dispute that, but one hard fact remains, one Communists just cannot seem to grasp, no matter what one read in the books of Marx, everything starts from them yet every time it ends in disaster and many cases blood shed, that all stem from one thing , human nature and how things evolve, and with Communism it's always evolved with the same outcome. Human nature is what determines everything. That's where it will always fail for our current world of the last 2 centuries, a few hundred for now things will without doubt be different and maybe Communism of a different style would suit, but in our world right now, it's doomed for failure.
It's very difficult, perhaps even impossible, to build socialism in a country that lacks the necessary material conditions for that stage of human development. The conditions required for a transition to socialism are created in capitalism because it is here that industrialization really sets in. This gives rise to a whole new class of people, the proletariat. Given the oppressive and exploitative nature of the capitalist greed for profit, workers are forced to organize themselves and this is where socialism in action is born.

The working class is no longer limited to the industrial proletariat. Our economies are dominated by the service sector today but that doesn't mean the working class no longer exists. The terms of exploitation are still the same, whether you're welding in a factory or sitting behind a computer.

October 4th marked 25 years since the end of the so-called constitutional crisis in Russia. Boris Yeltsin, practically backed by the entire west, began to implement harsh economic reforms that would escalate in a predatory capitalism unseen in Europe. But his plan was rejected by the Russian parliament, so Yeltsin ordered the military to shell the parliament building. Western leaders were celebrating Yeltsin as a rising star of democracy. Imagine Putin doing the same today.

Yeltsin emerged from the Soviet nomenklatura, the ruling bureaucracy. People like this used to run the USSR for most of its history. They treated Marx like some sort of saint whose name could be used in silly speeches. His ideas were not so important. Even Lenin, who was a great theoretician, had to twist many Marxist principles to make them apply to Russia because Marxism expects socialism to arise from an advanced capitalist society, not in a country that barely overcame serfdom.

The question of so-called human nature is one of the most commonly raised arguments against socialism. It's one of those illusory categories like free will. Human consciousness and society are always in a state of change. The way we think is determined by our social environment. If there was something like an objective human nature, what would be the point of fighting for a better world? The entire history of mankind is a history of permanent change. If the way people think didn't change, most of us would still be feudal serfs or worse because that would be considered as a natural order of things which you may call "human nature".
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