Holocaust:True Or False ? - Page 4

**SanteeFats** · August 10th, 2014, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

Sounds like it was made up by a Neoligismist!!!

Okay O now you are just making words up.
Showing results for neologist
No results found for neoligimist.

**SanteeFats** · August 10th, 2014, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodak

To the Moderators, Administrators or whomever it may concern.
Do The right thing!
Delete this fucking thread!

Seriously.. Six million Jews were slaughtered during The Holocaust.
I realize this is primarily a porn type site but this thread is truly offensive.

Rodak I ran this by the mods before even starting it and they said some might find it offensive. You are the first to post so. I understand that it could upset some people but it is a topic that should not be ignored, forgotten, or swept under the rug. If it is ignored it could very easily be repeated. Actually it is being repeated in some Muslim countries. It is an extremely sad part of WWII but it is history. Look at my first post and you will see I actually talked with an Auschwitz survivor. This is not a thread I started lightly believe me.

**Brecht** · August 10th, 2014, 01:50 AM

The Holocaust wasn't just the industrial killing in the camps. It started way before the war with discrimination, gradual expropriation and public humiliation, all of which hinted what was to come. All of this was happening right here where I live. My grandmother told me about the mass arrests and how her Jewish friends from the neighbourhood disappeared. She was 13 then. You can pretty much guess where they were taken to. Of course, most people after the war fled into the arms of self-denial, about how they had no idea about the camps.

The Holocaust is probably the best documented genocide in the history of mankind. There are no other motives for denying it ever happened than anti-Semitism. I've met people who were imprisoned in the camps for being Communists, Jews or both. Their stories convinced me that freedom of speech must always be obliged to facts. Hate speech and lies do not qualify. Back in school I visited Mauthausen. I saw the gas chambers. You can't debate with deniers because they don't care for the facts.

**otokonomidori** · August 10th, 2014, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodak

To the Moderators, Administrators or whomever it may concern.
Do The right thing!
Delete this fucking thread!

I realize this is primarily a porn type site but this thread is truly offensive.

What's "offensive" about it? Why should it be deleted - to protect your sensibilities?

Nobody is forced to contribute or to even look at the thread.

It's been a very reasonable discussion up till now with the deniers conspicuous by their absence.

**Meini Hirion** · August 10th, 2014, 03:38 AM

I believe that this is a worthy topic.

Closely monitored, even if all Mods are not available, it is by the originator and supporters.

The 'problem' that I see is in the nature of this site.
I would suggest that well over 95% of users of VEF are open-minded and of a disposition to be tolerant.

I would tend to use the word 'liberal' in it's non-political sense.

That's the problem about the topic, imo.

A site that respects "Beauty and Elegance" in erotica, has Hundreds of Threads and Thousands of Posts dripping with respect and appreciation for one aspect of human experience, is an unlikely place to uncover the rabid, the sick and the mentally challenged.

To have a debate or discussion about the 'denial situation'...you need some voice, or some head-above-the-parapet. I don't think you'll get one from 95% of VEF members.
So the exercise is a bit sterile - imo.

Here in the UK we have a pretty infamous Denier in one called David Irving.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

A man who claimed to have abandoned various University courses through lack of funds {although at the time, University Education in the UK was subsidised with no hint of student-loans and student debt etc}
He eventually had a Park Lane apartment after claiming to have worked as a labourer and writing one or two books about the Holocaust being fraudulent. Long out of print and remaindered, so not a big earner.

My point is, that this thread would go down well on some sites I've unfortunately stumbled upon across the years.

But not VEF.

No one will support the "Deniers" on here--imo.... So that is my worry, about creating a debate.

Perhaps we need a "Devil's Advocate", or better still, perhaps we need to discuss the "Deniers" and their poxy "evidence"...because otherwise this isn't the Forum to get a debate going.
We're too bloomin' tolerant and too appreciative of humanity.

The Moon conspiracies are amusing in the main, including the "Battle Fleet" on the dark side of the lump..

...but the Holocaust is the sickening reality.

Sorry for taking up so much time.
I'm glad your thread was allowed Santee, and I'm glad it is being watched carefully, by Mods and yourself.

To extend it's life, I would suggest we all disperse, research "Deniers" and then come back and discuss their "Evidence"

I am long winded when I get on me Hobby-Horse.

Apologies...

**Navvet** · August 10th, 2014, 04:51 AM

Among the first "holocaust deniers" was George Lincoln Rockwell. In March 1959 he founded the World Union of Free Enterprise National Socialists. In December 1959 he changed the name to the American Nazi Party. For the first few years of it's existence, membership was small, due to the fact that prospective members were reluctant to join an organization that supported the idea of murdering 6 million innocent people.
To get over this hurdle, Rockwell simply decided to deny that the holocaust ever occurred. He said that it was all government-sponsored propaganda. Once he got his message out, membership in the American Nazi Party quickly rose. New members realized that they could just claim that the holocaust was all nonsense.

Rockwell himself was murdered on 25 August 1967. His killer was John Patler, a former captain in the American Nazi Party. Rockwell and Patler had had a strong philosophical difference on the severity of the views that the ANP espoused, and Rockwell had expelled him from the party. Patler was convicted, and served just eight years in prison before being paroled.

**Meini Hirion** · August 10th, 2014, 05:44 AM

navmate,

I think that is what this thread needs.

--info about 'Deniers' and their 'Evidence'
--because we ain't going to get a 'Denier' to show up - imo

nckgmd · August 10th, 2014, 06:22 AM

I can't believe this question could be asked??? Without doubt yes......

Zidon · August 10th, 2014, 06:43 AM

Santee, first off I truly appreciate your posts, and I'm thankful for this one…

I'm what's called second generation, my mother was there.

She's still alive.

She and her sister were hidden by an incredible aunt (which I met), the father managed to escape, the mother and rest of the siblings were destroyed by the Nazis.

Many of you will know more facts than me, but maybe a few notes from a personal aspect:

The holocaust trauma passes on inside the families both in conscious and unconscious ways, the trauma or awareness of it in my family's case actually increases with time, it's a bad warp/twist/burden, it has a huge effect on one's personal life (negative, nothing positive, I won't get into that), relations etc (depending on circumstances and personalities, some deal with it better than others).

A very trivial anecdote comes to mind: I was in Germany in my 20's, no big deal, I was in Switzerland in my 40's, got on a train, and then there was German on the speakers, at first I didn't notice and then I catch myself reacting badly, feeling sick to the soul (and my mother even wasn't on a train to the death camps).

What really troubles me is that in 10-20 years that's it, no more survivors,

It's all history from there, and then it will dilute with time, fade away, be less horrible.

For now, 70 years is nothing, it's not ancient history, it's yesterday, and if the tendency is to say how the world improved and that it can't happen again, imagine the impact of these current protests when people say "jews back to the gas chambers".

I have an insight more than most to both the holocaust and doings in Israel, and these references/comparisons between Nazis and Israel truly get to me, especially the ease with which it's done.

Did you all get to hear the Turkish PM Erdogan comparisons? not to mention his country did the Armenian Genocide.

As I wrote in another thread, if anyone really thinks there is a basis for such a comparison, put it in the hamas-Israel thread, let's patiently work on it, I do believe in intellectual integrity.

There is one thing that helps me in this fucked up issue, it's to hear of resistance actions. Not just ghetto uprisings, I guess many have heard of the Bielski brothers, incredible, and there are these religious rabbis, not warriors, who went out and looked the destroyers in the face without fear, one of them said if he had 10 students like him he'd clear the Nazis away.

At least they got a bullet straight to the head and nothing else.

Thanks again Santee

Norkles · August 10th, 2014, 07:49 AM

The Holocaust happened, the camps did exist. My Serb great grandmother on my mother's side was sent to Jasenovac.

August 10th, 2014, 03:38 AM	#35
Meini Hirion Vintage Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 945 Thanks: 4,012 Thanked 9,060 Times in 914 Posts	I believe that this is a worthy topic. Closely monitored, even if all Mods are not available, it is by the originator and supporters. The 'problem' that I see is in the nature of this site. I would suggest that well over 95% of users of VEF are open-minded and of a disposition to be tolerant. I would tend to use the word 'liberal' in it's non-political sense. That's the problem about the topic, imo. A site that respects "Beauty and Elegance" in erotica, has Hundreds of Threads and Thousands of Posts dripping with respect and appreciation for one aspect of human experience, is an unlikely place to uncover the rabid, the sick and the mentally challenged. To have a debate or discussion about the 'denial situation'...you need some voice, or some head-above-the-parapet. I don't think you'll get one from 95% of VEF members. So the exercise is a bit sterile - imo. Here in the UK we have a pretty infamous Denier in one called David Irving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving A man who claimed to have abandoned various University courses through lack of funds {although at the time, University Education in the UK was subsidised with no hint of student-loans and student debt etc} He eventually had a Park Lane apartment after claiming to have worked as a labourer and writing one or two books about the Holocaust being fraudulent. Long out of print and remaindered, so not a big earner. My point is, that this thread would go down well on some sites I've unfortunately stumbled upon across the years. But not VEF. No one will support the "Deniers" on here--imo.... So that is my worry, about creating a debate. Perhaps we need a "Devil's Advocate", or better still, perhaps we need to discuss the "Deniers" and their poxy "evidence"...because otherwise this isn't the Forum to get a debate going. We're too bloomin' tolerant and too appreciative of humanity. The Moon conspiracies are amusing in the main, including the "Battle Fleet" on the dark side of the lump.....but the Holocaust is the sickening reality. Sorry for taking up so much time. I'm glad your thread was allowed Santee, and I'm glad it is being watched carefully, by Mods and yourself. To extend it's life, I would suggest we all disperse, research "Deniers" and then come back and discuss their "Evidence" I am long winded when I get on me Hobby-Horse. Apologies...

August 10th, 2014, 04:51 AM	#36
Navvet An Old Salt Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,121 Thanks: 71,788 Thanked 280,277 Times in 8,113 Posts	Among the first "holocaust deniers" was George Lincoln Rockwell. In March 1959 he founded the World Union of Free Enterprise National Socialists. In December 1959 he changed the name to the American Nazi Party. For the first few years of it's existence, membership was small, due to the fact that prospective members were reluctant to join an organization that supported the idea of murdering 6 million innocent people. To get over this hurdle, Rockwell simply decided to deny that the holocaust ever occurred. He said that it was all government-sponsored propaganda. Once he got his message out, membership in the American Nazi Party quickly rose. New members realized that they could just claim that the holocaust was all nonsense. Rockwell himself was murdered on 25 August 1967. His killer was John Patler, a former captain in the American Nazi Party. Rockwell and Patler had had a strong philosophical difference on the severity of the views that the ANP espoused, and Rockwell had expelled him from the party. Patler was convicted, and served just eight years in prison before being paroled. Last edited by Navvet; August 10th, 2014 at 07:01 PM.. Reason: added text

August 10th, 2014, 01:50 AM	#33
Brecht Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10,657 Thanks: 180,485 Thanked 188,146 Times in 10,453 Posts	The Holocaust wasn't just the industrial killing in the camps. It started way before the war with discrimination, gradual expropriation and public humiliation, all of which hinted what was to come. All of this was happening right here where I live. My grandmother told me about the mass arrests and how her Jewish friends from the neighbourhood disappeared. She was 13 then. You can pretty much guess where they were taken to. Of course, most people after the war fled into the arms of self-denial, about how they had no idea about the camps. The Holocaust is probably the best documented genocide in the history of mankind. There are no other motives for denying it ever happened than anti-Semitism. I've met people who were imprisoned in the camps for being Communists, Jews or both. Their stories convinced me that freedom of speech must always be obliged to facts. Hate speech and lies do not qualify. Back in school I visited Mauthausen. I saw the gas chambers. You can't debate with deniers because they don't care for the facts.

August 10th, 2014, 05:44 AM	#37
Meini Hirion Vintage Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 945 Thanks: 4,012 Thanked 9,060 Times in 914 Posts	navmate, I think that is what this thread needs. --info about 'Deniers' and their 'Evidence' --because we ain't going to get a 'Denier' to show up - imo

August 10th, 2014, 06:22 AM	#38
nckgmd Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 325 Thanks: 736 Thanked 2,361 Times in 296 Posts	I can't believe this question could be asked??? Without doubt yes......

August 10th, 2014, 06:43 AM	#39
Zidon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 178 Thanks: 1,017 Thanked 1,221 Times in 174 Posts	Santee, first off I truly appreciate your posts, and I'm thankful for this one… I'm what's called second generation, my mother was there. She's still alive. She and her sister were hidden by an incredible aunt (which I met), the father managed to escape, the mother and rest of the siblings were destroyed by the Nazis. Many of you will know more facts than me, but maybe a few notes from a personal aspect: The holocaust trauma passes on inside the families both in conscious and unconscious ways, the trauma or awareness of it in my family's case actually increases with time, it's a bad warp/twist/burden, it has a huge effect on one's personal life (negative, nothing positive, I won't get into that), relations etc (depending on circumstances and personalities, some deal with it better than others). A very trivial anecdote comes to mind: I was in Germany in my 20's, no big deal, I was in Switzerland in my 40's, got on a train, and then there was German on the speakers, at first I didn't notice and then I catch myself reacting badly, feeling sick to the soul (and my mother even wasn't on a train to the death camps). What really troubles me is that in 10-20 years that's it, no more survivors, It's all history from there, and then it will dilute with time, fade away, be less horrible. For now, 70 years is nothing, it's not ancient history, it's yesterday, and if the tendency is to say how the world improved and that it can't happen again, imagine the impact of these current protests when people say "jews back to the gas chambers". I have an insight more than most to both the holocaust and doings in Israel, and these references/comparisons between Nazis and Israel truly get to me, especially the ease with which it's done. Did you all get to hear the Turkish PM Erdogan comparisons? not to mention his country did the Armenian Genocide. As I wrote in another thread, if anyone really thinks there is a basis for such a comparison, put it in the hamas-Israel thread, let's patiently work on it, I do believe in intellectual integrity. There is one thing that helps me in this fucked up issue, it's to hear of resistance actions. Not just ghetto uprisings, I guess many have heard of the Bielski brothers, incredible, and there are these religious rabbis, not warriors, who went out and looked the destroyers in the face without fear, one of them said if he had 10 students like him he'd clear the Nazis away. At least they got a bullet straight to the head and nothing else. Thanks again Santee

August 10th, 2014, 07:49 AM	#40
Norkles Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 229 Thanks: 7,616 Thanked 1,780 Times in 221 Posts	The Holocaust happened, the camps did exist. My Serb great grandmother on my mother's side was sent to Jasenovac.