Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[scoundrel]

I respect Palo both for his steadfast loyalty to the Russian Federation (I'd have a low opinion of anything else) and for the logical consistency of his argument. But I am forced to take his "we" in this context with a large helping of salt. Not only is Palo not a citizen of the EU, he is the citizen of a country which is deeply antagonised and at variance with both Britain and the EU.

I am NOT your friend. I am the President of the Russian Federation. ~ Vladimir Putin.

Russia and Mr Putin will be extremely benefited by a huge fracture in the relationship between Britain and the EU. It is not in Russia's interests for Britain and the EU to form a successful new partnership.

And Palo is a loyal citizen of the Russian Federation; I would not respect him if it was not so.

Marc Antony: Now let it work. Mischief, thou art afoot,
Take thou what course thou wilt!
Julius Caesar Act 3 Scene 2.

[hoss]

After more than one and a half years of dithering on the part of the British government, one thing is evident: they did not and they still do not know what they are doing.
It all amounts to a leap in the dark.
If one considers the risks, namely creating an economic recession of unprecedented size and duration, dissolving the United Kingdom (if Scotland decides to leave) and reigniting the Northern Ireland conflict (if a hard border to Ireland is established), versus the benefits, namely being spared further immigration, the Brits must be scared to death by foreigners.
If one considers that Britain was the spearhead of colonial imperialism, this is an interesting role reversal.

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by ********

Keep hearing this one and it's a bit odd... You realize that most of the spawning grounds are in EU waters, so if we don't do a deal they will just up their quotas for those areas and we won't be getting any fish come to us anyway?

Of course the fish will know this and obediently follow the EU directive....

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by ********

Keep hearing this one and it's a bit odd... You realize that most of the spawning grounds are in EU waters, so if we don't do a deal they will just up their quotas for those areas and we won't be getting any fish come to us anyway?

Since 1973 the fisheries patterns have changed, as I noted in an earlier post on this thread somewhere. A lot of the surviving cod and haddock now live in waters from Shetland to Bear Island where the sea has not warmed up so far. British waters are quite well off for black and red bream, sea bass, halibut, plaice, Dover sole and also slightly more exotic species such as John Dory. We would have rather a lot more herring if there were not all those Dutch vacuum trawlers prowling just outside the 12 mile limit off the west coast of the Outer Hebrides.

Given the way the EU has "managed" fisheries since 1973 I wouldn't put it past them to encourage over-fishing in spawning grounds. These are people who allow fishing boats to dump dead fish back into the sea to stay in quota. They have had 45 years to come up with a sustainable fisheries policy and they haven't got there yet.

I think we can do better.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

First of course we will need to assess the "reality" we face

Wouldn't have been bad if you'd done that before shooting yourself in the foot. Seriously, that was not a good move

Still, 380 days or so before you reach the cliff. Let's see what you can make of it

[seany65]

Originally Posted by hoss

After more than one and a half years of dithering on the part of the British government, one thing is evident: they did not and they still do not know what they are doing.
It all amounts to a leap in the dark.
If one considers the risks, namely creating an economic recession of unprecedented size and duration,(1), dissolving the United Kingdom (if Scotland decides to leave) and reigniting the Northern Ireland conflict (if a hard border to Ireland is established), versus the benefits, namely being spared further immigration, the Brits must be scared to death by foreigners.
If one considers that Britain was the spearhead of colonial imperialism,(2), this is an interesting role reversal.

(1): What if things don't go that badly? being in the EU has not stopped Britain going through recessions.

(2): Really? Are we somehow forgetting the Roman Empire, the Persian Empire, the Islamic Empire, the the Mongol Empire etc.

[haroldeye]

I'm assured by some Fishermen at North Shields that one reason the Cod moving North is the industrial hoovering of sand eels along the North East coast by the Danes who use them to make fertiliser.

[hoss]

Originally Posted by seany65

(1): What if things don't go that badly? being in the EU has not stopped Britain going through recessions.

(2): Really? Are we somehow forgetting the Roman Empire, the Persian Empire, the Islamic Empire, the the Mongol Empire etc.

(1) "What if" is not planning, it is gambling. That is exactly what I meant. You simply don´t gamble with the welfare of a whole nation.

(2) So Britain was not the only imperial power. Does that make my point invalid? I think not.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by hoss

.....dissolving the United Kingdom (if Scotland decides to leave) .....

What are you blethering about? Scotland has already decided not to leave and that's not likely to change in the foreseeable future.

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by hoss

(1) "What if" is not planning, it is gambling. That is exactly what I meant. You simply don´t gamble with the welfare of a whole nation.

That's right. So why put the welfare of your nation into the hands of a bunch of non elected former dodgy politicians whose main aim is to keep the gravy train rolling and the troughs filled.