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View Poll Results: Leave The EU or stay in The EU?
Leave The EU. 278 56.97%
Stay in The EU. 173 35.45%
I don't care either way/won't be voting. 25 5.12%
I'd rather not say. 12 2.46%
Voters: 488. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-17-2017, 04:03 PM   #2081
Wendigo
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Originally Posted by haroldeye View Post
The people of Gibraltar have had two referenda on the matter of joining Spain and both times they rejected the idea by the sort of majority that not even Stalin could muster.
Yes but when they said NO they surely meant YES
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:36 PM   #2082
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The people of Gibraltar have had two referenda on the matter of joining Spain and both times they rejected the idea by the sort of majority that not even Stalin could muster.
They will be begging to join if we have a hard Brexit. A hard border with Spain would destroy their economy... They would be living on aid supplies sent from the mainland UK, like some disaster area.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:25 PM   #2083
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They will be begging to join if we have a hard Brexit. A hard border with Spain would destroy their economy... They would be living on aid supplies sent from the mainland UK, like some disaster area.
The Spain-Gibraltar border was closed by General Franco in 1969 and did not re-open until 1985. Gibraltar's economy was not destroyed.

In 1730 Spain built walls and fortifications to completely shut Gibraltar off from any contact with the world except by sea. These walls remained utterly without so much as a gate or a door until 1810, when much to her chagrin Spain found herself allied to Britain in the Napoleonic Wars. For 80 years Gibraltar was walled up like an unchaste nun. Gibraltar's economy was not destroyed.

Any fool can see that a cooperative relationship with the EU is in Britain's best interests. But I cannot help thinking that the EU is pretty big headed if it believes we cannot manage in the absence of a cooperative relationship, or even that Gibraltar cannot manage. I regret that it looks as if we might have to prove this point and show that we can cope with life outside the EU in order to persuade the EU to negotiate with us like grown ups.

Ignore Nigel Farage BTW, as we ignore Guy Verhofstadt. They are nothing more than static on the airwaves.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:57 PM   #2084
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The Spain-Gibraltar border was closed by General Franco in 1969 and did not re-open until 1985. Gibraltar's economy was not destroyed.
Yes, but back then it wasn't totally reliant on people crossing that border for work either.

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Any fool can see that a cooperative relationship with the EU is in Britain's best interests.
May can't see it. She seems determined to make the negotiations fail.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:19 PM   #2085
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They will be begging to join if we have a hard Brexit. A hard border with Spain would destroy their economy... They would be living on aid supplies sent from the mainland UK, like some disaster area.
Gibraltar is for now a member of the EU, but Gibraltar isn't a member of the free trading with the EU.

So there will be as good as no economic changes in the future between Spain (EU) and Gibraltar.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:52 PM   #2086
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It may be incorrect to compare present-day Gibraltar with the Gibraltar from 40-50 years ago. Gibraltar is the EU's tax evaders' favorite place on European soil. That's Gibraltar's "economy" today. What's it going to be replaced with after Brexit? An automobile industry with 10.000 jobs at least?
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:18 PM   #2087
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It may be incorrect to compare present-day Gibraltar with the Gibraltar from 40-50 years ago. Gibraltar is the EU's tax evaders favorite place on European soil. That's Gibraltar's "economy" today. What's it going to be replaced with after Brexit? An automobile industry with 10.000 jobs at least?
The most workplaces are in the tourism industry. Second place is some dockyards to ships repairs.

The secondary workplaces are in banks, what means offshore Banks. But with the European wide vigilance system this should being dried out soon or later.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:24 AM   #2088
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Gibraltar has for many years been a major employer in the area with thousands of jobs available to the Spanish population. The Spanish governent has recently sent more border guards down to the border and they are deliberately making life difficult for both Spaniards who work in Gib and tourists.

Remind me what is Spanish unemployment running at.

Obviously there are many European politicians who think that the project is more important than the social and economic welfare of the people.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:12 AM   #2089
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Originally Posted by haroldeye View Post
Gibraltar has for many years been a major employer in the area with thousands of jobs available to the Spanish population. The Spanish governent has recently sent more border guards down to the border and they are deliberately making life difficult for both Spaniards who work in Gib and tourists.

Remind me what is Spanish unemployment running at.

Obviously there are many European politicians who think that the project is more important than the social and economic welfare of the people.
Concerning on those Offshore Banks and Gibraltar being not a member of the the EU free trade it's no wonder that Spain are sending more boarder guards (smuggling of money and goods ???).

Germany has the same kind of problems of smuggling money to Switzerland and Lichtenstein. There are also stronger controls at the boarders..
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:39 AM   #2090
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Germany has the same kind of problems of smuggling money to Switzerland and Lichtenstein. There are also stronger controls at the boarders..
I drove from Switzerland into Liechtenstein and then into Germany in 2013 - the only time I saw a border guard was when we went back into Switzerland.
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