[gregj1967]

OK. Before I get into the latest installment in this ongoing debate, I'd just like to say that it's actually been something of a pleasure CTRFLD_Admirer. I can respect people who come in and shake things up around here from time to time. You're involvement here has livened things up and given us all alot to think about and personally, I appreciate it, even if I don't agree with you.

Now, on to the business at hand.

Originally Posted by CTRFLD_Admirer

The Fake Dick approached this picture out to prove it was a fake. He had no interest in finding out whether it was genuine. He didn't even know about the Colleen Camp interview saying Lynda Carter had done it until I told him.

Unfortunately for The Fake Dick, he couldn't rely on his usual "here's the original photo of the nude body, and here's the head it was taken from". The only way to make this photo a fake was to conjure up some story about some artist painting it. Come on. That's an awful lot of effort to make a fake photo.

The Fake Dick's report is not the only reason I think it's a fake. I've listed numerous reasons as to why the photo's authenticity is improbable at best (which I'm not going to repeat; if you want to read them, go back to my last two posts on this issue). I simply used the FD's composite and referenced his report on it as one source of information. In addition it seems your criticism of FD is somewhat personal based on your interaction with him, but none of what you say disproves his assertion that the photo is a fake. You just kinda think he's a jerk. Besides, one wouldn't have had to read the Playboy article to come to a conclusion about the photo's validity, since that article doesn't prove anything one way or another.

There's no saying that Playboy has the photo in its archives. Since Lynda wasn't used, Playboy may've lost it. If they even had it in the first place. Remember, the studio arranged to have the photo taken, not Playboy. The only copy I ever saw of the Colleen Camp Centerfold was in that issue.

But in you're initial posting you DO SAY that this was a Playboy photoshoot. That's what Colleen Camp says also: "Playboy did a photoshoot with her, the whole bit...". But now you're saying that it may not have been a Playboy photoshoot? Which one is it: a Playboy shoot or not? That would make a considerable difference since anything Playboy shoots is no doubt 100% publishing rights retained and carefully archived. Does anyone out there really believe that a 50+ year old mega-magazine empire like Playboy just "loses" or "forgets" about a shot like this? If someone else shot it, then, well...anything's possible right? Very convenient but not a very convincing argument. And sheer conjecture--out of left field--I might add.

And what are the odds that some artist picked the Colleen Camp photo which, as you said, in the original movie was shown for just a few seconds? Of all the possible models, especially since it was being painted, he could've picked a better one.

Like I said before, it's possible that someone was reading that article and got the idea to create a Lynda Carter centerfold photo from it and make some money. Sounds possible, even likely, to me. I've seen fakirs use much more obscure shots than the Colleen Camp photo. Perhaps the person thought that since the Camp photo only appeared in that one article that maybe fewer people would recognize it if he used it as the basis for a fake. There are any number of reasons why that picture could have been used. And personally I don't agree with the FD about it being painted. Airbrushing was clearly used, but the basis is a photograph I think.

In order to assume it's a fake, we have to accept:

1. That Colleen Camp was lying when she said in her article that Lynda was the first choice and a centerfold shot was taken of Lynda. Since she was on the set, and would know that she was the second choice, I see no reason to doubt her.

No we don't. As I said before, I'm NOT questioning Colleen's honesty (and I NEVER called her a liar), but she may very well have gotten her facts mixed-up. That's the problem with heresay information; since it doesn't come from a source who was actually involved in or a witness to those events and decisions, it's unrealiable. Not to mention the fact that the story often changes slightly when it goes from one person to another, to another, etc. The fact that Colleen was on the set for SOME OF the shooting of Apocalypse Now hardley means she was privy to all the minute casting details that took place BEFORE she even got there.

2. That some artist decided, out of all the possible models, to use one of Colleen Camp from Apocalypse Now that appeared in a 20 second segment of the movie.

Well, it did appear in the Playboy article didn't it. So someone could have blown up that shot and used it as the basis for a fake. The fact that it's barely visible in the film would actually be a plus as far as the fakir is concerned since the shot wouldn't be as easy for the general public to recognize, assuming of course the fakir's intent was to pass off his creation as real and fool somebody into paying money for it as a genuine photo.

3. That this artist would use the details from Camp's photo right down to the clothes in the shot.

Why not? That shot looks a lot like a 1960s Playboy shot but was never an actual centerfold and was only published in that one article in that one issue. Colleen's hair color, breast size, and build are all similar to Lynda's meaning that there's that much less work to do on altering the photo (which wouldn't be the case had he selected a shot of a blonde with medium-sized breasts and a less dynamic physique). Clearly whoever concocted this fake DIDN'T want anyone to know that he had used this source material. To cover his tracks further, I believe the fakir altered certain details of the posture through simple cutting and pasting, airbrushing, and then took a photo of his creation. The graininess of the photo you recently posted would also serve to obscure any evidence of such alterations.

Here's a scan of my copy that I've had for 28 years.

The photo is Lynda- her unused Centerfold shot for Apocalypse Now.

How does the fact that you've had the photo for 28 years prove that it's real? You keep mentioning how long you've had it as if that really means anything. As I've said before, people were creating fake photos long before the home computer or Photoshop existed. It just took a lot longer and required certain technical knowledge in order to do so.

A couple of days ago I did yet another Google image search for Lynda Carter. I went to about 36 different sites and blogs that had pix of Lynda and only two of those had this shot posted (out of hundreds of photos). Both were blogs and in one case all that was written about it was that it turned on the ********* The other blogger also mentioned how much he liked it, and rhetorically asked if it was real. The headshot only was posted in the JSR pages Lynda Carter section with the nudity cut out. Since JSR does post other celeb nudes, I assume they beleive it's a fake, or are at least not sure enough to post the whole picture. No doubt this photo is posted elsewhere--aside from fake sites--I just got tired after looking at 36-odd sites for several hours. But this is like the third time I've done searches related to this photo without coming up with anything substantial.

This photo simply has no history connected with it that would indicate it's authenticity, on the contrary--it's low-profile on sites that post only real photos of Lynda Carter combined with it's presence on sites that specialize in fakes only, would seem to indicate that it ain't genuine. After reading several dozen biographies of Lynda--albeit short ones--there's no reference to this photo, Lynda's involvement in Apocalypse Now, Lynda ever posing nude for Playboy or for anyone else anywhere. Wikipedia's biography of Lynda states that THE ONLY TIME SHE EVER APPEARED NUDE IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA was in Bobbie Jo and the Outlaw. But maybe they just "forgot" as well. And after all Wikipedia is an unreliable source of information and not really used by too many people on the web anyway, right?

I'm now beginning to question whether Lynda was ever really connected with Apocalypse Now in the first place. There's no mention of her in Karl French On "Apocalypse Now"(Bloomsbury Movie Guide #1, 1998, Bloomsbury Publishing, New York) which is an A to Z guide on everything related to the film.

There's also no reference of any kind to Lynda in The Apocalypse Now Book By Peter Cowie (2001, Da Capo Press), a detailed & authorized book covering the film from inception right through to the re-cut and release of Apocalypse Now Redux. But there is a little bit of info I found interesting...

On page 20 it says that the original actresses cast as the Playmates were "real-life Playmates" Linda Carpenter (sounds kinda like Lynda Carter, doesn't it?), Linda Hoflich, and Cyndi Wood. The author makes a mistake by writing that Cyndi Wood was replaced by Colleen Camp, which she wasn't since Cyndi appears in both versions of the film (with a greatly expanded role in Redux). Colleen in fact replaced Playmate Linda Hoflich. Lynda Carter was a virtual unknown at the time and I think it's possible that Colleen confused her name with Linda Carpenter's or Linda Hoflich's. Maybe, maybe not. But there's absolutely no reference to Lynda Carter anywhere in this book which is the most definitive book yet written about the film.

CTRFLD_Admirer, I'm leaving you the last word here since this will be my last post on this subject, at least for now. I just have too many other things to do and the time it takes to properly rebut you has taken away from the time I usually spend doing posts in other threads which I have been neglecting.

I've decide however to take this matter to the source: Lynda Carter herself. I found a mailing address for her online, and confirmed it through several different online sources, and intend to write her a letter asking her what the real story on this photo is. Whether I get a response or not is anyone's guess but It seems the only way to clear this matter up once and for all (and may not even do that). If and when I get a response I will post it here in it's entirety for all to see.

Until then...I've said all I really have to say on this matter. If my arguments don't convince you or anyone else reading this than there's really nothing else I can say. I've done my best to form and present as reasonable and logical an argument as I can. If that's not good enough, well...

I'll be back soon with more vidcaps of Lynda as usual.